Omni/Magnitude front cap fix

[kwplot34]

I removed one of the screws and sent a drill bit thru hoping that it would come out thru the metal roof frame so I could install the #10 SS machine screw and get a poly lock nut on it, and it did HOORAY! I removed all the cheap self tapping screws, drilled out the hole and installed the SS fasteners, It was a little difficult getting my hand up in the ceiling to put on the washer and nut, but I improvised and over came the tight area.

[kwplot34]

Removed the trim from the drivers side of the cap also today so I can install the fasteners on the side of the cap tomorrow, no real new surprises there, no insulation, a big nest of wires fell down just like the passenger side and found out why one of the small LED lights quit working, the wire pulled out of the cheap connector and it was a piss poor job of crimping, I will replace all of Thor's butt connectors and use some much better ones that I have and heat shrink them and clean up the all the extra wires that are way too long, guess they like wasting wire.

[Judge]

Thanks for the update last night Kevin! You are knocking it out of the park!!!

I'm not surprised you found the same screws on the roof but a little surprised they were loose.... although I shouldn't be given the the guys on the line over-tighten 90% of the screws they install.

My concern now is what I told you yesterday. I put EternaBond Tape over every seam, joint and opening on the roof that had Dicor when I bought the coach. The guys at the Service Center in Wakarusa did not remove the EternaBond Tape on the roof to check or replace the screws up there.

The good news is the EternaBond will prevent any leaking and hopefully the other work they did to reinforce the cap mounting will do the job. Heck who knows.... the EternaBond may do a better job than their screws on the roof holding the cap on!

Thor's wiring is also a joke. I have fixed and cleaned up a bunch of wiring on my coach as well.

You are making some great progress and your improvements are going to be great. I'll bet the coach is going to be quieter up front too after you are done.

[chunker21]

Originally Posted by kwplot34

The fix is really not that hard, just time consuming, if you had an extra pair of hands it would go much faster, I am use to doing repairs or builds by myself so I have a lot of experience in working around issues where another person is needed. If you don't have a TIG welder to weld the aluminum don't let that hold you back, there is most likely a professional welder in your area or a welding and fabrication shop in your area.
And if anyone decides to tackle the job their self and have some questions, just ask, I will be more than happy to answer your questions and help you out.
Also I wouldn't let this issue get to you, any RV you purchase is going to have it's own set of issues and problems, I have owned 3 motor homes by different manufactures and all of them were not assembled very well and I think they get their fasteners from the same vendor, cheap, worthless, junk self tapping screws.

I appreciate the words of encouragement. It's frustrating that the more I dig into it, the more poor construction and design I find. Thor is the king of bling and pauper of quality. That said after the spring trip and the success or failures that occur, I'll make the decision to repair or replace. I have the advantage of having a 30x50 pole barn on a level pad so the work I do gets to be semi weather protected. It appears from your pictures and comments, you are somewhat at the mercy of the weather.

Question, you have referenced the pedestal a few times. Maybe my brain malfunction, but what part are you referring? You also made reference to taking the frame to a welding shop which I presume is your new reinforcing frame you built for the cap. Did you add any reinforcing welds to the poor welded body frame members such as shown in post #4?

I also appreciate this detailed posting. If I decide to fix it this will serve as a guide, if not a reminder why I'm bailing and going elsewhere.

Morning Judge, I see we are both up early this morning.

EDIT, Kevin when you added aluminum reinforcing members such as in post #9 did you consider steel or did you think the aluminum will be adequate? Aluminum lighter obviously and easier to drill and work.

David

[paulwadley]

Thanks for your postings on the repairs you are doing. The pictures help out. Hopefully those with the same model will review everything you have done and be prepared for what is about to occur if not addressed early.

Paul

[Gmthrust]

Originally Posted by kwplot34

Removed the trim from the drivers side of the cap also today so I can install the fasteners on the side of the cap tomorrow, no real new surprises there, no insulation, a big nest of wires fell down just like the passenger side and found out why one of the small LED lights quit working, the wire pulled out of the cheap connector and it was a piss poor job of crimping, I will replace all of Thor's butt connectors and use some much better ones that I have and heat shrink them and clean up the all the extra wires that are way too long, guess they like wasting wire.

First and foremost, just as everyone else is saying-wow!!! This is an awesome job you are doing (which I plan to follow) and it is priceless.
Two questions concerning the reinforcement of the side walls: 1. What length are those #6s and what size aluminum strips did you use inside? They appear to be smaller than the one you used on the cab. Is there any particular reason or was it just material you had and it would suffice for the job?
I know you are busy so there is no rush on the answers.
For what it is worth-I used flame and mold resistant, and sound proof batt insulation in the cap. It was easy to break apart and fit into those channels on the cab, sides behind the seats and in the ceiling area of the cap.

[kwplot34]

Originally Posted by Judge

Thanks for the update last night Kevin! You are knocking it out of the park!!!

I'm not surprised you found the same screws on the roof but a little surprised they were loose.... although I shouldn't be given the the guys on the line over-tighten 90% of the screws they install.

My concern now is what I told you yesterday. I put EternaBond Tape over every seam, joint and opening on the roof that had Dicor when I bought the coach. The guys at the Service Center in Wakarusa did not remove the EternaBond Tape on the roof to check or replace the screws up there.

The good news is the EternaBond will prevent any leaking and hopefully the other work they did to reinforce the cap mounting will do the job. Heck who knows.... the EternaBond may do a better job than their screws on the roof holding the cap on!

Thor's wiring is also a joke. I have fixed and cleaned up a bunch of wiring on my coach as well.

You are making some great progress and your improvements are going to be great. I'll bet the coach is going to be quieter up front too after you are done.

I'm curious as to what the Thor service center did for a repair, you should pull the molding on one side and look under there and see what screws they put in, I'm betting they put the same self tapping screws back in which would be very disappointing. The screws on the roof, keep an eye on the tape and see if any screws start pushing into the tape, the screw head should not be able to push thru the tape but it should leave an outline of the screw head in the tape,
That cap should not have any rattles in it anymore after I'm done, it use to have a couple from time to time and if you hit a big bump in the road usually the expansion joint at the bridges a big popping sound would come from the cap and now I know why it would make that sound, screws breaking the cap moving.

[kwplot34]

Originally Posted by Gmthrust

First and foremost, just as everyone else is saying-wow!!! This is an awesome job you are doing (which I plan to follow) and it is priceless.
Two questions concerning the reinforcement of the side walls: 1. What length are those #6s and what size aluminum strips did you use inside? They appear to be smaller than the one you used on the cab. Is there any particular reason or was it just material you had and it would suffice for the job?
I know you are busy so there is no rush on the answers.
For what it is worth-I used flame and mold resistant, and sound proof batt insulation in the cap. It was easy to break apart and fit into those channels on the cab, sides behind the seats and in the ceiling area of the cap.

Thanks Gmthrust. When you start on yours if you have any questions don't hesitate to ask.

The screws on the side walls are #10 SS machine screws 2 1/2" long, all the fasteners I am using including the washers and nuts are SS ( stainless steel )
The aluminum strips on the side walls are 1/8" x 3/4". On the cab the bolts are 1/4" x 1 1/2" and the strip is 1/8" x 1". I would of liked to have used a bigger diameter screw in the side walls but if you go much bigger on the diameter when you drill the hole for the bigger screw you will be getting really close to the edge of the cap or in some areas break through the outer edge and I wanted to leave quite a bit of material at the edge of the cap, on the narrower strip on the wall if you go any wider it will stick out from behind the upholstered trim panel that mounts behind the driver and passenger seat and the big upholstered trim panel that covers the side wall on the cap.

Thank you for the advice on the insulation I have not looked into that yet so I will probably follow your lead on that.

[kwplot34]

Today I pulled the molding on the drivers side and the repair and assembly will mirror exactly what I did on the passenger side.
Of course Thor left lots of surprises for me on this side under the molding that would leave me standing there shaking my head and saying WTH!!!
I removed the 10 screws in the cap same amount as the passenger side and of the 10, 7 were broke and the other 3 were loose. I counted 24 holes drilled, that means 14 holes had no screws in them, well kind of, those 14 holes all had screws broken off in them from their piss poor assembly line workers not knowing how to use a screw gun, Thor really needs to take those screw guns away from them until they're properly trained on how to use them, I mean crap, it isn't rocket science.
Anyway, the same cheap, junk, self tapping screws were used as found every where else. And like the passenger side there was no adhesive/sealant used behind the cap, so 7 of the 10 screws broke off and the remaining 3 screws loose there was nothing, NOTHING holding the cap side to the coach body and nothing to keep the water out.
I did put the Evercoat adhesive under the cap on this side also, same as the passenger side.

[kwplot34]

I am not sure what in the Swiss Cheese Holy Hell happened here, but every one of those holes has a screw broke off in it, so the Numb Skull assembly worker just kept going until he/she got a screw in without breaking it off.
I did fill all those holes with the adhesive/sealant I used behind the cap. I mean other than the mess the employee made here with all those holes, it actually weakens the structure, the aluminum frame work in the walls is what they're drilling into.
Enjoy the picture. And try to keep your cussing down to a low roar when you see it.

[kwplot34]

With the cap securely fastened and sealed now on both sides and the roof I turned my attention to the rest of screws that run down the side. They're the same self tapping screws and out of the 28 that were removed from both sides only 2 were found broken off and really none of them were loose, these screws really don't have to do much they're not carrying a load and the main coach side wall is glued to the aluminum frame work behind the walls, now that was shocking to find out.
I replaced all of the screws with a bigger screw, I used #8 SS sheet metal screws 1" long. After drilling out the holes for the bigger diameter screw the 3M silicon that I posted a pic of a couple days back was injected into each hole and a dab left around the opening to seal under the screw head when tightened down.
After all the screws were installed, the molding on each side was put back into place and ran a bead of the 3M silicon down each side of the molding.
That finishes up the out side work, now back to the inside and finish it up.

[Judge]

Originally Posted by kwplot34

I am not sure what in the Swiss Cheese Holy Hell happened here, but every one of those holes has a screw broke off in it, so the Numb Skull assembly worker just kept going until he/she got a screw in without breaking it off.
I did fill all those holes with the adhesive/sealant I used behind the cap. I mean other than the mess the employee made here with all those holes, it actually weakens the structure, the aluminum frame work in the walls is what they're drilling into.
Enjoy the picture. And try to keep your cussing down to a low roar when you see it.

In a different thread (I can't remember which one), I made a comment about most of the guys building these coaches have no pride in their workmanship and lack skill and training. I got blasted about generalizing that most of them are that way.

The picture of that Swiss Cheese just proves my point. That's also not the first time that I have seen a piece of metal on a coach that looks like buckshot went through it either.

Good thing you caught that because as soon as the sealant starts to lift, water would be forced through those holes and into the coach when driving down then road in the rain.

I know some will say.... we are getting what we paid for..... cheap coach.... cheap workmanship. I say BS!!!

[chunker21]

Originally Posted by Judge

In a different thread (I can't remember which one), I made a comment about most of the guys building these coaches have no pride in their workmanship and lack skill and training. I got blasted about generalizing that most of them are that way.

The picture of that Swiss Cheese just proves my point. That's also not the first time that I have seen a piece of metal on a coach that looks like buckshot went through it either.

Good thing you caught that because as soon as the sealant starts to lift, water would be forced through those holes and into the coach when driving down then road in the rain.

I know some will say.... we are getting what we paid for..... cheap coach.... cheap workmanship. I say BS!!!

Perhaps everything is relative but 1/4+ million$$$$$$ isn't cheap. Seeing what the factory did and hid disappoints me but doesn't surprise me. Shame on me for buying a thor when I knew better. For those with Tuscany and Venetian class A, what's under that shiny skin. More of the same I suspect. Thor's highly touted structural warranty is in effect useless and a lie since they apparently deny that a nose falling off is structural.

[kwplot34]

Originally Posted by Judge

In a different thread (I can't remember which one), I made a comment about most of the guys building these coaches have no pride in their workmanship and lack skill and training. I got blasted about generalizing that most of them are that way.

The picture of that Swiss Cheese just proves my point. That's also not the first time that I have seen a piece of metal on a coach that looks like buckshot went through it either.

Good thing you caught that because as soon as the sealant starts to lift, water would be forced through those holes and into the coach when driving down then road in the rain.

I know some will say.... we are getting what we paid for..... cheap coach.... cheap workmanship. I say BS!!!

When I started pulling the molding I noticed some water dripping out the bottom where it curves and attaches under the wall, so water had already found its way in there, I have found no signs of water on the inner side of the out side wall, got lucky there.
Oh I know the thread you're taking about and I was getting blasted in it also and I am sticking with the comment I made in that thread, NO pride, NO skill monkeys working on the line and NO Quality Control.
I am sure the usual suspect will show up and regurgitate their usual words of non sense and say " We got what we paid for" it's not a cheap coach and this is not what I paid for, it's a lack of pride, skill and quality control.
Fortunately for myself and others we can fix Thors shoddy work and make it right/better.

[kwplot34]

Originally Posted by chunker21

Perhaps everything is relative but 1/4+ million$$$$$$ isn't cheap. Seeing what the factory did and hid disappoints me but doesn't surprise me. Shame on me for buying a thor when I knew better. For those with Tuscany and Venetian class A, what's under that shiny skin. More of the same I suspect. Thor's highly touted structural warranty is in effect useless and a lie since they apparently deny that a nose falling off is structural.

You're correct, a 1/4 million is not cheap, the only thing that is cheap is Thors lack of pride and craftsmanship in their product.
Thor's structural warranty isn't worth the paper it's printed on, I have the emails from Thor and I have several from 3 different people that the front cap issue is not structural and it's not covered, but they wanted me to bring the coach back to them so they could look at it and I had appointment to that this month. I decided to just do it myself because driving to the Thor service center was going to be a waste of my time and money and they would probably charge a fee just to look at it and say, Sorry not covered. And according to Thor, and I have these emails also, all it needs is the screws tightened and some sealant applied
I am very positive that I am fixing it way better than Thor can/will. If they can't build it correctly they can't fix it correctly.

[Pillbox]

Kevin,
Your side molding looks alot like mine did.
Got any unused holes, go fish
I want to redo mine now, what a professional looking job you did.
The biggest take from your work is, thor did do a few changes in the structure but failed on the fastners.
Terry

[Zenith]

Hey Kevin, thanks for posting all your work. It helped me save time fixing mine myself.



Wow, I would have been cussing mad discovering the swiss cheese your had under the one side.


Our rig is at least 6 months newer than yours - we haven't even had it a year yet. With that in mind, we had no swiss cheese and more screws attaching the cab than in your pictures, so Thor is working on this some. We're really rough on our rig, it's been on forest service roads and gravel roads. I had to lift the front and we ripped our steps off... Anyways, we're an extreme use case, so I'm hopeful for new owners that this is improving at least.

[kwplot34]

Originally Posted by Pillbox

Kevin,
Your side molding looks alot like mine did.
Got any unused holes, go fish
I want to redo mine now, what a professional looking job you did.
The biggest take from your work is, thor did do a few changes in the structure but failed on the fastners.
Terry

Yeah Thor really fails miserably on the fasteners and the installation of them.

[kwplot34]

Originally Posted by Zenith

Hey Kevin, thanks for posting all your work. It helped me save time fixing mine myself.



Wow, I would have been cussing mad discovering the swiss cheese your had under the one side.


Our rig is at least 6 months newer than yours - we haven't even had it a year yet. With that in mind, we had no swiss cheese and more screws attaching the cab than in your pictures, so Thor is working on this some. We're really rough on our rig, it's been on forest service roads and gravel roads. I had to lift the front and we ripped our steps off... Anyways, we're an extreme use case, so I'm hopeful for new owners that this is improving at least.

Which screws are you referring too, the self tapping screws that go into the top of the cab or the self tapping screws that go into the side wall from the outside.
Did you notice if Thor put adhesive/sealant under the cap where it over laps the coach wall?
Is Thor still using those small self tapping screws?
I would like to think Thor is improving their assembly procedure, but I'm not going to hold my breath on it.

What did you do to fix yours?

[kwplot34]

Didn't have much of chance today to work on the RV had too many other things going on. But I did stop and get some insulation to put in the cap, I think this is what GmThrust put in his, it breaks up pretty easy which makes it simple to put in tight areas.