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Old 08-27-2020, 09:53 PM   #1
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Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Windsport 35C
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THOR #8449
What have I done wrong?

Trying to convert house batteries from two 12v to four 6v. Got everything done and some how mis-wired four batteries(changed how they were oriented) did'nt pay close attention. My bad, I'm getting old. Found this out when I turned everything back on and inverter display showed 11.7v and E02 error code(low volts). So I first plugged in to shore power, no change on display. I then started the engine. Display went to 15.2-16.4! Yikes! Turned engine off, went to battery compartment and before I could open the door I could smell burning!One of the batteries on fire. Put out fire, shut everything off. Couple of the cables too hot to touch. Replaced battery, checked other three. Rewired. Now still 11.7-8v on display. start engine display does not change(normally shows 14.2v) and does not change when plugged in to shore power(normally 13.6). What have I done wrong or what have I damaged? 110v appliances/AC work plugged in to shore, 12v lights, radio,fans etc work. Nothing seems to charge to house batteries. Now have external charger connected to see if can get 12.2-4 volts. why are'nt they charging on shore power or engine alternator? Help is appreciated
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Old 08-27-2020, 10:19 PM   #2
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You gave a pretty good explanation of what you did wrong/

My crystal ball is kinda foggy on what you damaged and how to get to "normal" from where you are now. Did you understand what you needed to do to make this change? Did you know and understand the purpose of every cable attached to the battery bank?

You can either take some pictures of what you have and try to convey what you see in layman's terms to this forum and eventually, maybe get things right; or you can hire a mobile RV tech to come to you and fix your mistakes.
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Old 08-27-2020, 10:31 PM   #3
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THOR #17969
Wire two six volt batteries in series. + of battery one to - of battery two. That gives you 12 volts at the positive of battery one to the negative of battery two. Verify that with a volt meter.


Wire the second two batteries the same way and verify the same 12 volts.


You now have two seperate banks of batteries producing 12 volts and roughly double the amp hour life (capacity) of one individual battery.


Now wire the + of bank one to the + of bank two, and the - of bank one to - of bank two. Verify you have 12 volts from the combined + terminals to the combined - terminals using a volt meter. If you do, then you have it wired correctly and should be able to connect them to MH system. If not, then double check the wiring and verify you do not have a bad battery. That required a load tester.



You now have essentially four times the amp hours available of any single battery.


Now the caveats, if the batteries are not of the same age and capacity they will draw their ampacity from the weaker battery or batteries. Also, this system will take a long time to charge all those batteries.



Another option would be to wire each bank to a battery switch like we do with boats. You could then choose bank one or bank two or both.



I guess the most obvious question is why all 6 volt batteries?
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Old 08-27-2020, 10:58 PM   #4
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THOR #9660
https://www.atbatt.com/how-to-wire-6...configuration/
make sure you have it exactly like this- like the others said but with pictures.
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Old 08-27-2020, 11:02 PM   #5
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THOR #13932
And when you've completed the four sixes become two twelves wiring:
Do what's in the attached diagram.

Earlier today we had someone post saying they had 7.5volts at their 12v receptacle.
If you and he got together you'd be fine.
Averages and all that....


Don't screw up.
Take pictures, and plenty of them, right now and throughout the process.
file the pic showing the correct wiring when you're done.
file it right with the pic I provided and the six to twelve link.
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Old 08-27-2020, 11:25 PM   #6
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THOR #8449
Thanks EDENSOB. That's exactly where I'm at. Everything is working except charging. Does not seem to be charging from any source (shore power, engine alternator or external battery charger) Thought maybe there might be a breaker needing reset. Thanks to all
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Old 08-27-2020, 11:43 PM   #7
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A short story.
My batteries crapped out.
We're at my dad's house, get two batteries, this forum helped me know they were 24's, so bought new before I removed the old.
I'm laying under the 24.1 cutting off the awful web straps holding the batteries down, I come out from under and my dad had disconnected both batteries.
No clue as to what went where.
The spousal unit and I had to do forensics on the cables matching twists in cables and scars on eyelets using the magnifier in my phone camera.
Then we discovered the two breakers in the diagram above, also discovered how one was placed over the other so the under couldn't be seen at all.

Just a bit of been there had a worse time than you
To cheer you on a bit.

(notice how I didn't mention the 106 or the ants)
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Old 08-28-2020, 12:13 AM   #8
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THOR #8449
Yea I plan to get under the coach tomorrow and see what I see. I will certainly be more knowledgeable after I/we solve this issue. It'll be worth it. From everything I read the 6 volts is the way to go. And these year and a half old batteries were free!
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Old 08-28-2020, 12:43 AM   #9
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Let me suggest one other thing. Take the four batteries to an Autozone and have them load tested. Many charging systems must see a certain voltage and battery resistance to begin charging. That is why I have automatic and non-automatic chargers in addition to a portable load tester. Also, when I need to bench test certain 12 volt systems (wiper motors, motors, fans, lights etc) the non-automatic charger works nicely since it is always putting out 12 volts. Probably a free or minimal charge for their service.
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Old 08-28-2020, 01:01 AM   #10
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Well,
You've done the work so this might not sit well:
When all the religion and my dad said and 6volt 1940's cars are taken out of the factual pile:
Pound for pound they're identical those 6 and 12's.
The sixes allow you to divide the size... And that's all.

Been there and done that.
I Have twelve of the 6's sitting here awaiting a project (half of them are powering the greenhouse... Had to use them for something)

Free is a very very strong reasoning.
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Old 08-28-2020, 01:07 AM   #11
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That's a good idea to load test them all. Even though they are new, good idea to confirm. I tested with volt meter and all were slightly under 6 volts. Thanks for the suggestion.
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Old 08-28-2020, 03:32 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lp1957 View Post
That's a good idea to load test them all. Even though they are new, good idea to confirm. I tested with volt meter and all were slightly under 6 volts. Thanks for the suggestion.
Slightly under 6 volts is pretty much dead
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Old 08-28-2020, 03:35 PM   #13
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There is actually a large benefit of going with heavy duty 6 volt versus 12 volt batteries in almost every case.

If you look hard at the specs you will come up with more amp hours available. You will also get more bang for the buck when purchasing

I have tried both ways and am back to 4 T105 AGM Trojans and they are well worth the expense.

We can run heat, fridge, all night and still brew coffee and have lights before generator run time
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Old 08-28-2020, 03:40 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lwmcguire View Post
There is actually a large benefit of going with heavy duty 6 volt versus 12 volt batteries in almost every case.

If you look hard at the specs you will come up with more amp hours available. You will also get more bang for the buck when purchasing

I have tried both ways and am back to 4 T105 AGM Trojans and they are well worth the expense.

We can run heat, fridge, all night and still brew coffee and have lights before generator run time
So the 6 volt batteries have better lead than the 12 volt batteries.
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Old 08-28-2020, 05:14 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Beau388 View Post
So the 6 volt batteries have better lead than the 12 volt batteries.

Not better, but for the same 12 volts there's a LOT more of it
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Old 08-28-2020, 05:36 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Beau388 View Post
So the 6 volt batteries have better lead than the 12 volt batteries.
Simple math
You get more lead with two 6 volt using standard batteries
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Old 08-28-2020, 05:40 PM   #17
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If someone really wants to dig into the 6v vs 12v there's a number of great articles out there

AGM is well worth the money and a large amount of my gain was AGM vs flooded
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Old 08-28-2020, 05:41 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lwmcguir View Post
Simple math
You get more lead with two 6 volt using standard batteries
The
pound of feathers
Vs
Pound of lead
Argument style.

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Old 08-28-2020, 05:42 PM   #19
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THOR #8449
Problem is solved. All that was needed was an overnight charge AND reset inverter display. Thanks to all for your suggestions and advice.
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Old 08-28-2020, 07:09 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lwmcguir View Post
Simple math
You get more lead with two 6 volt using standard batteries
It is the amount of lead in a lead acid battery that gives it rating nothing else. It doesn't matter if it is a 2 volt cell, two 2 volt cells, three 2 volt cells, four 2 volt cells, etc. The chemistry is the same. Now are better design batteries for specific uses, yes. A starting battery is meant for starting a vehicle. A deep cycle battery is meant for golf cart use (or an electric vehicle). A combination battery will work in both applications, but not as well as a battery made fro that specific purpose. 6 and 8 volt deep cycle batteries are the cheapest because the make up 40% of the deep cycle market as they are supplies to golf carts. Textron (E Z GO) buys over 2 hundred thousand GC-8 and 1 hundred thousand CG-2 batteries a year. Thor MC plant 750 (Thor's largest vehicle plant) buys approximately 4.500 group 27 12 volt combination batteries a year.

Go to the Trojan battery site and compare the weight of 12 volt batteries and 6 volt batteries. IE 12 volt group 27 Trojan is listed at 115 a-h at 61 lbs. A GC-2 (T-105) is rated at 225 a-h at 62 lbs. So 2 GC-2 weigh 124 lbs (1.81 a-h per lb)and 2 group 27 weigh 122 lbs (1.88 a-h per lb.) So actually the group 27 batteries have slightly more a-h per pound of battery but the CG-2s are slightly cheaper on the Internet.

I do agree that AGM batteries are generally better than flooded especially for starting batteries, but unless you consider the life cycle cost, flooded batteries are a better value. Actually I find combination batteries fill all my needs for house batteries (group 29).
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