So disappointing

[bikegolfgirl]

So I recently purchased an Thor ACE 29.3 and it has been in the shop more than its been on the road. The list of things that have either broken or just dont work is long. Also being new to the RV world I tried to do as much research as possible before buying my 2015 but I have to say knowing what I know now I would of went with another brand.

There should be a place newbies can go to help them learn about all the ins and outs.

[JamieGeek]

Originally Posted by bikegolfgir

I have to say knowing what I know now I would of went with another brand.

Doesn't really matter: All the brands have their issues. It is likely you would have had problems with a different camper. Sadly the entire industry is the same way (even 6 digit priced Diesel pushers have issues).

Hopefully everything does get fixed to your satisfaction and you end up enjoying your unit.

[Sirgilbert]

I feel your pain! The first time I took out my brand new 2015 Outlaw, the level,ears stuck and the dealer took two months - the whole summer - to fix it. The next time I hot a "low voltage return for service" message and the level lers don't work at all! The dealer can't take it for another two weeks and then can't say how long it will take to fix.

I hate my RV!!!!!

[Beacher]

Originally Posted by bikegolfgirl

....I have to say knowing what I know now I would of went with another brand.

There should be a place newbies can go to help them learn about all the ins and outs.

This IS the place where newbies congregate to find answers to their motorhome problems!

Regarding the brand comment, perform some due diligence on the message boards for any and all other brands or types of RVs, regardless of type, size or cost.

They all have issues. And, you might feel a little better, (if I point out the obvious), that that it costs more to repair the spendy brands of motorhomes than your Thor, particularly after the warranty period is over. And, the spendy brands frequently require a road trip directly back to the factory, (and long waits to get onto the reservation list). The spendy brand owners even excitedly post about "who is camping at" the factory waiting for service!!

So, take a deep breath. Make a list of everything that needs to get fixed while your warranty is in effect. Enjoy your motorhome and ONLY take it in for warranty repairs after the dealership service department has received authorizations and all of the correct parts, (having been verified by the actual technician who will perform the work), necessary.

Do not ever simply drop off the motorhome and let the service writer work on it at his/her convenience! That's how you hear about the horror stories of waiting for weeks and months.

That's how some dealership service departments prefer to run their operation, on their schedule, not yours. There is no need for that. it's your motorhome, enjoy it.

[Metalman]

We bought our Thor before I found this forum. If I had found this forum first, I wouldn't own a Thor. We bought the 2015 Windsport 27K with 6,000 miles and it came with a 30 day warranty from the dealer. After using the RV for 30 days we brought it back and had the following warranty work done: shower enclosure leak repaired, draw latch re attached, replaced heat/AC thermostat. Immediately after the 30 days we noticed that the windshield washer didn't work and one of the levelers was leaking.

I consider us fortunate to not have has as many problems are some of those on this forum. We have been RVing for about twenty five years and have had five RVs. None of them were trouble-free and I cannot remember a single moment when one of them didn't have some kind of issue that needed to be repaired or ignored.

We had a diesel powered 2000 Holiday Rambler Endeavor.. It was a very nice motor home as far as comfort and amenities, but by the time we sold it (for a fraction of what we paid) it was a total POS.

We must be gluttons for punishment to have purchased our 5th RV.

[bikegolfgirl]

I guess I just dont get it. Why is there such a quality issue with RVs? I understand you are taking a house and putting it on wheels which is difficult but I don't understand why the industry as a whole is so bad. Manufactures not standing behind their product. I would NEVER buy another rv from Camping World. They are the worst.

[Metalman]

I guess RV manufacturers and RV dealers are the way they are because they can get away with it. Perhaps the fact that RVs are usually for recreation and therefore are not a real necessity, keeps people coming back for more abuse. When you take the initial cost, the cost of maintenance and repairs, the expense for fuel, registration, insurance, and the severe loss of value as they age, I am surprised that any RV manufacturer is still in business considering the problems we've had with the economy since 2008.

[mcr1010]

Originally Posted by bikegolfgirl

I guess I just dont get it. Why is there such a quality issue with RVs? I understand you are taking a house and putting it on wheels which is difficult but I don't understand why the industry as a whole is so bad. Manufactures not standing behind their product.

I would guess the bean counters are behind the push for more profit and a lean bottom line at all cost; even lousy QC and denial of warranty items or either making it difficult to get warranty items fixed.

Originally Posted by bikegolfgirl

I would NEVER buy another rv from Camping World. They are the worst.

I have heard that before about CW....several times. I would guess buying from a dealer who has a good rep. for customer service after the sale is just as or more important than the brand of RV with all being equal.
Sure hope you can get to camping soon and ease the hassles you are having.

[Beacher]

Originally Posted by bikegolfgirl

I guess I just dont get it. Why is there such a quality issue with RVs?...

It's in the name RV, (recreational vehicle). It's not supposed to be a critical piece of property, it's for recreation, "a camper"!

At least that's how it's designed and intended to be used. Even the RVs designed for "fulltimers" are still meant to be used for recreational purposes only.

While a $100,000 motorhome may seem to be comparably priced with a cheap Porsche automobile, (a common $100k car these days), there is no comparison in safety, quality, or design.

With the car, about 60% of that $100k is spent in design, manufacturing, assembly and quality inspection. The rest, (the other 40%), is profit margin for the manufacturer and dealer.

With RVs and your motorhome it's a nearly reverse ratio. Only about 40% of that $100k is spent in design, manufacturing, assembly and quality inspection, (and that's including about 50% of that 40% spent entirely just for the chassis). And most of the inspection is directly incorporated into the manufacturing and assembly operations, (called Lean Manufacturing), in order to save money and completely eliminate a dedicated Quality Assurance/Quality Control Department and the associated Executives, Managers, Engineers, and Technicians. The other 60% of that $100k is profit margin for the manufacturer and the dealers.

As you can see, far less of the money you paid for your RV actually went towards the building of it. And, virtually NONE of it went directly towards dedicated Quality inspection and testing. All quality is integrated into the manufacturing and assembly by the "empowered" hourly employees that built your RV.

So there you have it!

[MrZip]

Keep in mind with the THOR brand they are trying to give you the maximum amount of RV and amenities for the price. With quality control at a minimum, there are many items that need attention when it gets to the dealer. It's really important that you are buying from a dealer with a top notch service dept. I just finished my 2nd summer season with the THOR outlaw 29h. It's basically taken the last 15 months to get all the bugs fixed, but all RV's need continuous maintenance so although everything is perfect at this point, I'm sure I'll have components fail in the future. Luckily I have extended maintenance on the coach and tire replacement for road hazard.
Sir gilbert (above) wrote :The next time I hot a "low voltage return for service" message and the level lers don't work at all!


Simple fix, press retract and enter button at the same time, this resets the system and your ready to go. BTW the leveling system is made by lippert and is not something manufactured by THOR they just do the install. Do some research on lippert and you can learn all about the system.

[Metalman]

Beacher,
I will have to take your information about the percent of profit on vehicles as quite possibly being true, since I don't know anything about such things. But as you wrote,

"It's not supposed to be a critical piece of property, it's for recreation, "a camper"!
At least that's how it's designed and intended to be used. Even the RVs designed for "fulltimers" are still meant to be used for recreational purposes only"

does not make any sense, except for the manufacturers and dealers.

Recreational vehicle owners certainly don't expect to spend their hard-earned money on vehicles that don't perform as intended and also they don't want have their new vehicles sitting, waiting for parts and repairs for weeks on end. Sloppy design, cheap components, lack of quality control is a disgrace and I am flabbergasted that more isn't done to curtail such shoddy conduct.

[Beacher]

Originally Posted by Metalman

.....
"It's not supposed to be a critical piece of property, it's for recreation, "a camper"!
At least that's how it's designed and intended to be used. Even the RVs designed for "fulltimers" are still meant to be used for recreational purposes only"

does not make any sense, except for the manufacturers and dealers. .

That's my point. From the perspective of the people that make and sell them, they are simply for fun. So, don't take them so seriously.

Originally Posted by Metalman

.....Recreational vehicle owners certainly don't expect to spend their hard-earned money on vehicles that don't perform as intended .

Owners are essentially getting what we pay for!

I tried to explain that out of every dollar spent on our motorhomes, only $0.20 went into the manufacture and assembly of the box that we step into and judge for fit and finish. Another $0.20 to $0.30 per dollar went to purchase the chassis. That's it!

If you consider the labor rates and costs to manufacture

Originally Posted by Metalman

..... and also they don't want have their new vehicles sitting, waiting for parts and repairs for weeks on end. .

An owner should NEVER leave their motorhome, (or any RV), waiting for parts or repairs. The onus is on the owner to only bring in the RV on the day of repair. This is only done after all warranty authorizations have been approved, all correct parts have been received, all parts have been reviewed by the technician that will install them, and the exact time and date have been scheduled and agreed upon by the service writer and the owner.

I have owned three motorhomes, a PopUp, and a 5th wheel. I have not left any of them for warranty service longer than one day overnight. I did have to babysit the repair processes and perform telephone, email, and fax work that should have been accomplished by the respective service departments. However my reward was not having to go through weeks or months of waiting for minimally-employed people to perform simple communications tasks at their leisure, on their schedules.

Originally Posted by Metalman

..... Sloppy design, cheap components, lack of quality control is a disgrace and I am flabbergasted that more isn't done to curtail such shoddy conduct.

I'm pretty sure that nobody is forcing anyone to purchase RVs and motorhomes at gunpoint, or even mildy twisiting their arms. Folks keep buying them this way, so they keep making and selling them this way.

People can speak with their wallets, but they don't.

I personally am amazed that people are willing to pay so much for motorhomes! If you look at the market back in the 70's and 80's RVs and motorhomes, (and all RVs), were very easily affordable by anyone in the "middle class".

Then, when the baby boomers started to retire, they became willing to sell their stick homes in order to finance and purchase ridiculously expensive six and seven figure motorhomes. The retiring "Boomers" actually drove up the prices and profit margins for the RV and motorhome industry!

The RV industry simply absorbed the financial willingness of these baby boomers and raised their margins, while reducing operating expenses, in order to increase profits.

I'm an executive in the aerospace industry. We manufacture satellites and planes for commercial and military applications. And, I can only wish that MY customers were as willing to depart from their money as retiring Boomers! The profit margins on RVs and motorhomes are phenomenal when compared to the aerospace and even the automotive industry!

[MBMACE]

I'm in the same position with Camping World, I REALLY DISLIKE THEIR POLICIES AND PRACTICES, but the more I read about all the rest of them why they are all allowed to treat their customers this way.. Hang in there