RV Hitch Capacity: Best Dumb Question

[HMCSW]

Originally Posted by EA37TS

Towbar does not connect to the 7 pin. The umbilical cord attaches to the seven pin to control lights and possibly brakes depending on the braking system installed.

Protect a tow, IMHO, is a waste of money. 20k miles towing our Grand Cherokee the past two years and not a scratch due to towing. Only damage has been from a campground employee running into the front of the car with a golf cart while the were watching the ground instead of where they were going.

If you are really concerned about the towed paint get it wrapped in the front. We have not had any issues but we have a A class pusher and a flap that goes across the rig.

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by EA37TS

Towbar does not connect to the 7 pin. The umbilical cord attaches to the seven pin to control lights and possibly brakes depending on the braking system installed.

Protect a tow, IMHO, is a waste of money. 20k miles towing our Grand Cherokee the past two years and not a scratch due to towing. Only damage has been from a campground employee running into the front of the car with a golf cart while the were watching the ground instead of where they were going.

Got it, you have cleared up my confusion. I was told I needed this https://www.etrailer.com/p-ETBC7.html for the brake controller, but not sure they were clear that my RV is already equipped with 7 pin plug.

I would buy the proportional controller https://www.etrailer.com/p-90885.html I just don't like having to mount where visible, but it looks like simple install if you can find the 4 pin connector in the F-53 chassis.

So now I know the umbilical cord controls rear light, turn signals and braking function. In the case of the Roadmaster model I was looking, it comes with the Tow bar thus I incorrectly assumed it was tow bar being plugged in.

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by Chateau_Nomad

A "plug and go" setup takes much more effort up front - AND it's more of a hit cash-wise. Just like AGM vs FLA batteries, more upfront, but no-mess or fuss later.

Of course you can do a self install to save over $1,000... but it's a knuckle buster... and time/effort studying up on 12 volt systems. But then you KNOW it's done right. For me it was worth the extra effort of installing an internal hidden auxiliary braking system AND wiring the tail lights to "just work".

From experience, your toad will get VERY dirty... especially when raining. STRONGLY urge investing in properly designed mudflaps/mitigation - but don't count on 100%. Something to consider...

I'd guess a "proper" full install with all needed equipment will push $5k today. I'm guessing between $800 - $1k is labor. I'll make you a deal... you help me install my lithium battery system and I'll give you free consulting on your tow setup!!

The only thing I know about a Lithium battery system is that it is not a MOD for me, if i buy a RV that has lithium so be it. We don't have a energy source problem in the RV, 125ahs AGM is plenty capacity for us.

I am now about $2,200 parts. I will have to get some labor estimates. If it is less than $1,000, it might now be too bad? $3,200 - $3,500 turn key is likely my limit. About half the cost to install a low end Lithium system

[EA37TS]

Originally Posted by dkoldman

Got it, you have cleared up my confusion. I was told I needed this https://www.etrailer.com/p-ETBC7.html for the brake controller, but not sure they were clear that my RV is already equipped with 7 pin plug.

I would buy the proportional controller https://www.etrailer.com/p-90885.html I just don't like having to mount where visible, but it looks like simple install if you can find the 4 pin connector in the F-53 chassis.

So now I know the umbilical cord controls rear light, turn signals and braking function. In the case of the Roadmaster model I was looking, it comes with the Tow bar thus I incorrectly assumed it was tow bar being plugged in.

Why do you need a brake controller? Are you towing your vehicle on a trailer?

Most supplemental braking systems for a TOAD do not require a controller

[Lt Keefer]

Originally Posted by EA37TS

Why do you need a brake controller? Are you towing your vehicle on a trailer?

Most supplemental braking systems for a TOAD does not require a controller

That's what I was thinking. I've never heard of a brake controller for a toad and I don't have one for mine, nor the two before this one.

[Chateau_Nomad]

Originally Posted by dkoldman

The only thing I know about a Lithium battery system is that it is not a MOD for me, if i buy a RV that has lithium so be it. We don't have a energy source problem in the RV, 125ahs AGM is plenty capacity for us.

I am now about $2,200 parts. I will have to get some labor estimates. If it is less than $1,000, it might now be too bad? $3,200 - $3,500 turn key is likely my limit. About half the cost to install a low end Lithium system

Even with buying a (new in box) towbar off eBay, and a self install - I still robbed the piggy bank of about $3k. A while ago in an old post I listed the parts I used along with what I paid.

I think after you get everything sorted, and have someone else do the install, you'll be at minimum $3,500. That's assuming you do a true plug n play setup... InvisiBrake or similar, and 12v charge line for your toad battery.

I've heard of people using surge brakes for flat tow... but I went with a higher end system.

P.S. You don't need the brake controller itself, just access to the wiring pigtail - which is near your steering column. You just use the signal wire to tell your auxiliary braking system you've applied brakes in the MH. That wire (and the charge wire) connection is in the 7-pin.

[16ACE27]

Originally Posted by dkoldman

Got it, you have cleared up my confusion. I was told I needed this https://www.etrailer.com/p-ETBC7.html for the brake controller, but not sure they were clear that my RV is already equipped with 7 pin plug.

I would buy the proportional controller https://www.etrailer.com/p-90885.html I just don't like having to mount where visible, but it looks like simple install if you can find the 4 pin connector in the F-53 chassis.

So now I know the umbilical cord controls rear light, turn signals and braking function. In the case of the Roadmaster model I was looking, it comes with the Tow bar thus I incorrectly assumed it was tow bar being plugged in.

You were told wrong. That is a brake controller for a trailer with electric brakes. You need a brake controller to put in the car to activate the car brakes. Completely different animal.

[MJC62]

Somewhere in this thread the OP asked about protecting the Navigator from damage.
We have been using the Roadmaster Tow Defender on a Roadmaster Falcon All Terrain tow bar. The Tow Defender is a bit salty (over $5 bills on E trailer) but in our experience it does its job. Our Cherokee stays relatively clean during rainy drives and knock wood no chips. We drove through a construction site over freshly applied chip & seal in Wyoming last summer. Even crawling over the newly applied surface you could hear the gravel dinging off the MH fender wells. When we stopped and inspected the toad not a mark on it.

[Chateau_Nomad]

Originally Posted by MJC62

Somewhere in this thread the OP asked about protecting the Navigator from damage.
We have been using the Roadmaster Tow Defender on a Roadmaster Falcon All Terrain tow bar. The Tow Defender is a bit salty (over $5 bills on E trailer) but in our experience it does its job. Our Cherokee stays relatively clean during rainy drives and knock wood no chips. We drove through a construction site over freshly applied chip & seal in Wyoming last summer. Even crawling over the newly applied surface you could hear the gravel dinging off the MH fender wells. When we stopped and inspected the toad not a mark on it.

Although I go bareback with no extra protection for the toad, I concur with this... well worth the money considering the damage from rocks and who knows what else.

My toad is a 22 year old Jeep TJ... although it's in reasonably good shape, it's expected to have a little road rash for character. But if I was towing a luxury cruiser like a Navigator... different animal.

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by EA37TS

Why do you need a brake controller? Are you towing your vehicle on a trailer?

Most supplemental braking systems for a TOAD do not require a controller

I was told by etrailer yesterday in a long I thought thorough call of all I needed. This is one of many they sent over in quote?

https://www.etrailer.com/p-90885.html

For this project, it is to tow a fairly new Lincoln Navigator 4 wheel down.

I have towed vehicles on trailers but always a U haul Trailer with surge brakes.

I assume I need something to tell the vehicle I am braking, but not sure what? I have a lot of homework to do before doing anything. A toad may just Not be for me?

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by 16ACE27

You were told wrong. That is a brake controller for a trailer with electric brakes. You need a brake controller to put in the car to activate the car brakes. Completely different animal.

I see. When I finally see one, will the right type of Brake controller communicate with the vehicle brakes via the 7 pin connector on back of RV, or a new connector altogether?

This is what etrailer provided me https://www.etrailer.com/p-90885.html

So yes I am confused

[EA37TS]

Originally Posted by dkoldman

I was told by etrailer yesterday in a long I thought thorough call of all I needed. This is one of many they sent over in quote?

https://www.etrailer.com/p-90885.html

For this project, it is to tow a fairly new Lincoln Navigator 4 wheel down.

I have towed vehicles on trailers but always a U haul Trailer with surge brakes.

I assume I need something to tell the vehicle I am braking, but not sure what? I have a lot of homework to do before doing anything. A toad may just Not be for me?

I use an InvisiBrake. Current for the brake lights (both) coming out of the seven pin tells InvisiBrake to apply the brakes. Although the main unit is called a controller it is not a brake controller in the true sense of the phrase.

The sensitivity for controlling brake pressure is an adjustment with gauge on the InvisiBrake controller.

Also with my system power coming in through the tail light pins causes InvisiBrake to charge the TOAD’s battery. I did however have a dedicated charge line installed in case I forget to turn the Coach’s light on while driving.

[16ACE27]

Originally Posted by dkoldman

I was told by etrailer yesterday in a long I thought thorough call of all I needed. This is one of many they sent over in quote?

https://www.etrailer.com/p-90885.html

For this project, it is to tow a fairly new Lincoln Navigator 4 wheel down.

I have towed vehicles on trailers but always a U haul Trailer with surge brakes.

I assume I need something to tell the vehicle I am braking, but not sure what? I have a lot of homework to do before doing anything. A toad may just Not be for me?

See post #27 above.

Tekonsha Prodigy P2 Trailer Brake Controller

[16ACE27]

Originally Posted by dkoldman

I see. When I finally see one, will the right type of Brake controller communicate with the vehicle brakes via the 7 pin connector on back of RV, or a new connector altogether?

This is what etrailer provided me https://www.etrailer.com/p-90885.html

So yes I am confused

Most, not all, Toad brake controllers are inertially activated, so they don't actually know if the towing vehicle has actually activated the brakes - no wire connection to the towing vehicle.

Take a peek here:

https://www.etrailer.com/tbbrake-202..._Navigator.htm

BTW what year is your Navigator? Have you verified in the Owners Manual that it CAN be flat towed? For instance, a 2020 Four-wheel Drive Model With SLOW
CLIMB Mode is the only model that can be towed for that year.

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by 16ACE27

Most, not all, Toad brake controllers are inertially activated, so they don't actually know if the towing vehicle has actually activated the brakes - no wire connection to the towing vehicle.

Take a peek here:

https://www.etrailer.com/tbbrake-202..._Navigator.htm

BTW what year is your Navigator? Have you verified in the Owners Manual that it CAN be flat towed? For instance, a 2020 Four-wheel Drive Model With SLOW
CLIMB Mode is the only model that can be towed for that year.

My Navigator is the 2020 Four-wheel Drive Model With SLOW
CLIMB Mode Reserve package In fact it looks like the one in the video.

I don't have air brakes in my RV so one of his options does not apply. But the one that is seems like it would work is way over my price range $1,175 just for the brakes

It is confusing as heck because he has Blue Ox system but yesterday they quoted me Roadmaster system. I think the lady I had was very helpful but perhaps not as knowleable with some of the details. I got a lot more good out of her than the mistake so I ain't mad at her. She did tell me to look at videos but they have so many.

My guess is that I am up to about $3,400 parts and the labor is a TBD.

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by EA37TS

I use an InvisiBrake. Current for the brake lights (both) coming out of the seven pin tells InvisiBrake to apply the brakes. Although the main unit is called a controller it is not a brake controller in the true sense of the phrase.

The sensitivity for controlling brake pressure is an adjustment with gauge on the InvisiBrake controller.

Also with my system power coming in through the tail light pins causes InvisiBrake to charge the TOAD’s battery. I did however have a dedicated charge line installed in case I forget to turn the Coach’s light on while driving.

Okay here is Roadmaster InvisiBrake

https://www.etrailer.com/Tow-Bar-Bra...hoC2QgQAvD_BwE

They quoted a charge line, so I assume if I had this thing, I would not need the charge line.

This weekend I need to redo my estimate in ebay cart and then go over it with them one more time. I need to know what all I need so I can start shopping around to see who can install and how much. If it hits $5k, it will be hard for me to justify.

[Chateau_Nomad]

I got lucky with a "grunt" helper... and being retired has it's perks for jobs like this. I don't remember exactly, but I spent most of a week off-and-on with my install. I'm also guessing stringing wiring inconspicuously to the tail lights is easier on a my Wrangler than a Navigator.

If you're not up for that, I'm guessing maybe $800 for a qualified installer... who has done this before.

Here's my parts list (from 2020):
Looks like prices have "inflated" by about 20% since then... but hey - everyone got a 20% raise since then, right?

Tow Bar
Blue Ox BX7365 Alpha 6,500lb
Includes safety cables
$650 on Amazon
Bought privately new in box $300

Vehicle Base Plate
Blue Ox BX1120 Baseplate
Etrailer.com - free shipping
$410.60

Auxiliary Braking System
Roadmaster 8700 Invisibrake Hidden Power Braking System
Includes breakaway cable
Amazon $840

Light Wiring
Roadmaster 15267 All-In-One light wiring kit
Coiled power cord
Wire
4 diodes
Amazon $130.44

Light Socket for Towed Vehicle
Blue Ox light socket BX294-0902
Compatible with Blue Ox Baseplate mounting
Etrailer.com $12.95

Brake Light Relay
Roadmaster Brake-Lite Relay Kit
Amazon $33.06

Total: $1806.04 (including tax)

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by Chateau_Nomad

I got lucky with a "grunt" helper... and being retired has it's perks for jobs like this. I don't remember exactly, but I spent most of a week off-and-on with my install. I'm also guessing stringing wiring inconspicuously to the tail lights is easier on a my Wrangler than a Navigator.

If you're not up for that, I'm guessing maybe $800 for a qualified installer... who has done this before.

I am not retired and been awfully busy these days. This may take me a while. I just learned that it was possible on my Navigator.

But here is what I know so far relative to what you got...

Here's my parts list (from 2020):
Looks like prices have "inflated" by about 20% since then... but hey - everyone got a 20% raise since then, right?

Tow Bar
Blue Ox BX7365 Alpha 6,500lb
Includes safety cables
$650 on Amazon
Bought privately new in box $300

Roadmaster Nighthawk All Terrain, Non-Binding Tow Bar w/ LED Lights - RV Mount - 8K
Item # RM-676
$1,031 So this is a problem $400 too much!!!

Vehicle Base Plate
Blue Ox BX1120 Baseplate
Etrailer.com - free shipping
$410.60

Roadmaster Direct-Connect Base Plate Kit - Removable Arms
Item # RM-524457-5
$485; I think Blue Ox version is $491 so this is no big deal to me.

Auxiliary Braking System
Roadmaster 8700 Invisibrake Hidden Power Braking System
Includes breakaway cable
Amazon $840

Roadmaster InvisiBrake Supplemental Braking System
Item # RM-8700
$1,006

Light Wiring
Roadmaster 15267 All-In-One light wiring kit
Coiled power cord
Wire
4 diodes
Amazon $130.44

Roadmaster Universal Wiring Kit with Smart Diodes for Variable Voltage LED Tail Lights
Item # RO44FR
$97 so this looks cheaper?

Light Socket for Towed Vehicle
Blue Ox light socket BX294-0902
Compatible with Blue Ox Baseplate mounting
Etrailer.com $12.95

Don't know what this is? Right now, my quote is for Roadmaster system

Brake Light Relay
Roadmaster Brake-Lite Relay Kit
Amazon $33.06

Don't know what this is? Right now, my quote is for Roadmaster system

Total: $1806.04 (including tax)

Items that you do not have.

I have to upgrade my RV hitch.
Curt Trailer Hitch Receiver - Custom Fit - Class IV - 2"
Item # C14082
$270

Charge Line Kit that I may not need?
Roadmaster Battery Charge Line Kit for Towed Vehicles
Item # RM-156-25
$33

So total parts all off etrailer is $2,925

I am estimating labor of $1,500 so about $4,500 total

[EA37TS]

When my system was installed I caught the “anything installed for 59.00” special at Camping world. It cost 59.00 for each baseplate, InvisiBrake, wiring harness, and brake monitor.

There was an issue with the seven pin installed on the Jeep so the RoadMaster rep came to the house at no charge twice and rewired the plug.

Here is the link to the thread I started that includes parts list.

https://www.thorforums.com/forums/f9/outfitting-2019-grand-cherokee-trailhawk-17552-2.html

[Chateau_Nomad]

You shouldn't need a "charge line kit". One of the contacts on the 7-pin is specifically 12 volts. That's where I pulled power (fused of course) for the Jeep battery charging.

The light socket (actually a 6-way round receptacle) is because the base plate for my Jeep didn't have an integrated 6-way receptacle... I had to mount it on the Jeep base plate near the front bumper.

Look up 7-way RV to 6-way round cord on e-trailer. There's many videos showing complete wiring schematics, and what each pin is for.

Yep... it's sticker shock! And I thought $800 was outrageous for the brake system BACK THEN!!