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Old 02-04-2019, 02:56 PM   #21
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Yep, thanks for the info. I think I would really like the 5 star tune - Not only for more HP and TQ but the downshifts sound like they are more intelligent.

Sometimes my RV skips 5th and goes into 4th at 4000+ RPM on the interstate. Thats drives me crazy. So I try to actively monitor this and adjust my speeds to prevent annoying down shifts. Cant really use cruise in very hilly areas (let along Mtns). So I use the down hills to add speed for the next climb as much as possible.
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Old 02-04-2019, 07:41 PM   #22
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UltraPower is Less Expensive

UltraPower is $499.00 and I would be happy to ask if they would give us a discount. I am going to get one of theirs.
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Old 02-04-2019, 09:45 PM   #23
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Well since you can get a 5 star for like $425 to $450 now with dicount or coupon I would go that route (IMO). Im still on the fence.

If Ultra power was like $375 (or less) I might consider it.... but then again I have heard nothing but good things about 5 star on this forum and others.... I think I would still pick 5 star even if it was like $100 more.
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Old 02-08-2019, 05:29 AM   #24
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confirmation plus great emissions

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperD View Post
Proof is in the drive! After first installing my 5 Star Tune 2 years ago I was still not getting engine braking downshifts (factory problem that required having ECU reflashed), called 5 Star and they sent another tune to correct the problem, no charge!

After 2 years I would not go back to the factory Tune!!! Acceleration, shifting, and believe it or not, better mpg by about 0.5. I put about 2500 miles on my coach prior to installing my Tune, difference was night and day. Worth every penny and then some!!!
Your experience with fuel usage and hp and shifting matches the claims from both 5 star and ultra power. cool... I have no comparison, since we started out with the Vegas tuned, stabilized and sway bared, thanks to you-all.

The ultra power guys have had previous success with their tuned engines passing CA emissions, so I am going to give it a try when our date comes up.
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Old 02-08-2019, 05:39 PM   #25
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I always thought torque was the king of moving weight. I can't see how making more torque and then using it would be bad for fuel economy.

I can see however that in OD, pushing more torque can be bad. I saw that with a diesel suburban and the 700R4 transmission. We leaned on the pump, and it could hold OF better on hills. However the clutches and such were too small for that much torque in OD and eventually caused failure of OD.
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Old 02-08-2019, 06:41 PM   #26
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Couple quick points here...

On smog laws and these specific aftermarket tunes...

1-New vehicles in California have 8 YEARS before you'll need a smog. That's a long time.
2- If your GVWR is below 14,000, you'd be getting a BAR OIS test, which (at this time, this is changing though) doesn't know or doesn't care what the exact calibrations (CVN numbers) are during the smog test. In other words, as long as there are no codes and the needed monitors are run, you WILL pass smog with any of these particular aftermarket tunes in these particular vehicles. If you're over 14,000 GVWR, then you'd be getting a BAR 97 test (2 speed dyno), which again, as long as there are no codes, monitors have run and the aftermarket tune isn't totally butchered, you should pass even the dyno test just fine.
3- Any of these aftermarket tunes can be put back to totally stock calibrations in a matter of less than 5 minutes. So if you do need a smog, you simply load the stock tune, drive it for a few days and go get your smog done.

On trans downshifting, running rpms and gas mileage...

There's a reason why Ford drops the 6 speed from 6th to 4th really easily. Both 5th and 6th gears are overdrives. You REALLY don't want to be putting a whole lot of load on overdrive gears. So dropping from 6th to 4th most of the time is actually the right way to climb a grade, ESPECIALLY when towing.

Technically, the highest efficiency in an engine is at the lowest rpm and the widest throttle opening for the given load. I say technically because that's in a lab with 100 other variables taken out of the equation. It's basically when the engine's pumping losses are the lowest. In reality, it has to do with all those other variables, like how the engine calibration is written, how the engine itself is built (intake and exhaust runner design and sizes, compression ratios, bore/stroke, cam timing and profile, etc, etc,). I've got about 8,000 miles of data on my V10 already, I log about 30 engine PID's every time I drive. Fun fact- you actually CAN get better gas mileage at 2500rpms vs 2000rpms in the right conditions with the way these V10's are built. It's not all cut-and-dry, there's a lot to this stuff. The worst part for us with the V10? That it doesn't have VVT. If it had variable cam timing tuning would make an even bigger difference in gas mileage and torque. (That's something that makes the new Ford engine so exciting, it has VVT.)
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Old 02-08-2019, 08:54 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmtech16450yz View Post
On trans downshifting, running rpms and gas mileage...
There's a reason why Ford drops the 6 speed from 6th to 4th really easily. Both 5th and 6th gears are overdrives. You REALLY don't want to be putting a whole lot of load on overdrive gears. So dropping from 6th to 4th most of the time is actually the right way to climb a grade, ESPECIALLY when towing.
)
Not quite. The Ford 6-sp trans introduced in 2011 was designed from the beginning to be used only behind the 6.7 L diesel (800 ftlbs of torque @ 1,600 rpm) No way that 420 ftlbs of torque @ 3,000 rpm would ever hurt the trans in any gear.
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Old 02-08-2019, 10:40 PM   #28
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Well it might be more like 4000 or 5000 RPM but you made a good point.

But it might also have to do with tranny heat or slipage in the OD gears (5 or 6th).

Going to 4th makes since but if its a slight incline for a short distance and im NOT towing I would rather have it drop one gear at a time.
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Old 02-08-2019, 11:01 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Beau388 View Post
Not quite. The Ford 6-sp trans introduced in 2011 was designed from the beginning to be used only behind the 6.7 L diesel (800 ftlbs of torque @ 1,600 rpm) No way that 420 ftlbs of torque @ 3,000 rpm would ever hurt the trans in any gear.

I agree 100% and wouldnít personally worry about the 6R140 which like you say was designed for the dieselís much higher torque.

Two things that are interesting is that the 6R140 doesnít actually have a direct gear ratio, so engine torque is always going through some gear ratio/multiplication. Most transmissions have a 1:1 ratio, but this one doesnít. As far as stress on gears themselves and transmission in general, the worse case is usually 1st gear. I believe Ford may limit engine torque in 1st gear on some applications to prevent damage.

The new 10R140, if similar to 10R80 in design as stated by Ford engineers, has a 1:1 ratio in 7th and overdrive ratios in 8, 9, and 10th. Those who donít like transmission shifting should probably avoid the new 10-speed. More gears means more shifts. Thatís why Ford spent money putting them there.
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Old 02-08-2019, 11:22 PM   #30
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I give up. There's too many "experts" (google search experts actually) on here, you guys don't need or want to listen to anything I have to say. I'll leave so the few "experts" on here that have absolutely no experience, training or knowledge on what they're saying can continue to regurgitate what they read on the internet.

Have fun.
I'm out.


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Old 02-08-2019, 11:39 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmtech16450yz View Post
I give up. There's too many "experts" (google search experts actually) on here, you guys don't need or want to listen to anything I have to say. I'll leave so the few "experts" on here that have absolutely no experience, training or knowledge on what they're saying can continue to regurgitate what they read on the internet.
Have fun.
I'm out.
.
What makes you think, we do not have the degrees (ME, MS - NCSU MS, math -LSU) and practical experience (SCCA racer for 30 years - Fiat Abarth Zagato, Corvair Corsa, Mazda MX-5) to analyze Ford's vehicle specifications?
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Old 02-09-2019, 12:12 AM   #32
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We never said we are experts.....sometimes we will make comments or post question so others that know more can answer them logically (or illogically - lol).

Sometimes it gets carried away but thats also how we learn and grow.

No one said you were wrong.

Sometimes others bring up some valid points that I like to see what the answer are and I look for your answers at the end.

I dont see anything posted that should upset you (IMO). Just tell us we are wrong. Wont hurt my feelings. Or correct what is wrong (if you want).

Sometimes they post stuff that make me think about the subject in a different light.
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Old 02-09-2019, 11:50 PM   #33
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Vocabulary

Quote:
Originally Posted by apr67 View Post
I always thought torque was the king of moving weight. I can't see how making more torque and then using it would be bad for fuel economy.

I can see however that in OD, pushing more torque can be bad. I saw that with a diesel suburban and the 700R4 transmission. We leaned on the pump, and it could hold OF better on hills. However the clutches and such were too small for that much torque in OD and eventually caused failure of OD.

Is there a cheat sheet somewhere to help us newbies decipher some of the lingo? I'm guessing OD is overdrive, but whatz OF? Thanx
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Old 02-10-2019, 01:57 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbwilli1 View Post
Is there a cheat sheet somewhere to help us newbies decipher some of the lingo? I'm guessing OD is overdrive, but whatz OF? Thanx
I believe it a typo , OD, saying holding overdrive hitting the hills..
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Old 02-10-2019, 03:02 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chance View Post
Please consider that while feeling and hearing downshifts may be annoying to some drivers, they may actually save fuel and be less stressful on engine. Running an engine at close to 100% torque so it doesnít downshift is neither the most fuel efficient nor easiest on engine.

I know there are other things going on, but itís not an obvious win-win all around. Many people think that running at lower RPMs always saves fuel but thatís not the case. Often itís more efficient to downshift and let engine operate at faster RPMs.
I'm (now) an old gearhead and I'll back this statement. It was referred to as: don't "lug" the engine down, particularly for long periods of time (long grades). To be fair the ECU will learn this driving habit and adjust the fuel mixture to add a little bottom end but Chance is right - you better know where the line is.

The opposite is also true. A 5:13 or 4:56 will launch you off the line like a rocket ship, but run those gears at highway speeds a lot and you're rebuilding the motor about every 30-40k miles; if not less (mostly bearings and rings).

Use your head.
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Old 02-10-2019, 03:14 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Long & Winding road View Post
Yep, thanks for the info. I think I would really like the 5 star tune - Not only for more HP and TQ but the downshifts sound like they are more intelligent.

Sometimes my RV skips 5th and goes into 4th at 4000+ RPM on the interstate. Thats drives me crazy. So I try to actively monitor this and adjust my speeds to prevent annoying down shifts. Cant really use cruise in very hilly areas (let along Mtns). So I use the down hills to add speed for the next climb as much as possible.
I do this as well but you don't have to shut off the cruise control. Think additive instead of replacement.
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Old 02-10-2019, 03:29 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmtech16450yz View Post
I give up. There's too many "experts" (google search experts actually) on here, you guys don't need or want to listen to anything I have to say. I'll leave so the few "experts" on here that have absolutely no experience, training or knowledge on what they're saying can continue to regurgitate what they read on the internet.

Have fun.
I'm out.
.

Hey. Don't get your panties all in knot there ok? We appreciate the input, BUT when someone disagrees just roll with it. Don't take your bat and ball and go home. Stick it out. Like someone else said - it's how we learn and grow. It also gives us the opportunity to hear different points of view. It's how you learn (and grow?). You wouldn't be here if you weren't cut from the same cloth. I don't believe you're here to pontificate.

Share what you know and pull that knot out
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Old 02-13-2019, 03:53 PM   #38
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Tuner

I purchased mine from ultra rv,it took 5 calls and threat to return before sending the correct code. I would not recommend.
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Old 07-19-2019, 04:41 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Long & Winding road View Post
I can see your point but it does "seem" like its using more fuel efficent at a lower RPMs. If the engine is spinning faster, the intake and exhaust are sucking in and exhaling more so therefore more fuel being burnt? I dont know but it make sense.

But if you dont change your throttle positon (at Hi RPM or Low RPM) are you really using more or less fuel? Perhaps since its all computer controlled it will add more fuel as needed??

I dont know ... just a thought.... GMtech can answers these better than most of us.

I think as long as you dont bog down your engine (with an automatic it should not allow its self to "bog down" like my manual trans Jeep can) and it stays in a good torquey part of the power band I would think that would be more fuel efficient at a lower RPM.

Perhaps running at 100% peak torque at all time no matter what Rpm you will "win the race" to the finish line but be less fuel efficient??

But I think I would pick "comfort" (Less engine noise) and what I perceive as "easier on the engine" (AKA lower RPM) over MPG anytime.
I agree with you 100% FORD is a low torque motor and any gas motor last twice as long if you donít tear into it rpm wise. Iím trying to find a solution for overshifting ON down hills when not needed the RVs are way too high. It sounds like five star or the other is the way to go. I love this thread
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Old 07-19-2019, 04:55 PM   #40
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This is the exact problem I’m having with my Thor three V 6.810 the tranny shifting on downhills drives me nuts when not needed. Did you ever upgrade and what do you think of it super thank you for the reply
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