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Old 08-30-2020, 05:37 PM   #81
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Brand: Still Looking
Model: Sunstar 29VE Winnebago
State: Texas
Posts: 842
THOR #13058
Quote:
Originally Posted by twovillagers View Post
I'm not disputing the NEED to do a PDI and you are correct that it helps bring accountability to the dealers and manufacturers.
What I'm attempting to point out is that shifting the burden and cost of quality inspections to the buyer on a brand new RV is never justifiable.
There is paradox across your two statements

If you agree with the need to do a PDI, how can you find fault with a Manufacturer.... for a Customer that refused to take responsibility for a PDI that they signed a form to complete, or waive before the purchase was completed.

It is like saying you agree that everyone should have liability insurance, but it is okay if a person decides to forgo; because you also view it as a shift of burden and cost to drivers and that should never be justifiable.

You never answered the question...

Would you buy a home without a walkthrough?

In many ways an RV is just like a home. Thus the term "Motorhome"

This extends to many contract purchases before you actually pay or take delivery. Few examples were pre inspections are performed as matter of routine.
  1. Cars / SUVs
  2. Painting of home
  3. Installation of new fence at home
  4. Roof work on a home
  5. Pool purchase
  6. New stereo system in vehicle

I think the difference is that most people know what to look for in the examples; but for a Motorhome they do not; so they buy and they hope. When / if things go wrong; they then blame and shift their lack of responsibility back to RV Mfg. Caveat Emptor
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Old 08-30-2020, 06:00 PM   #82
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Brand: Still Looking
Model: Sunstar 29VE Winnebago
State: Texas
Posts: 842
THOR #13058
Quote:
Originally Posted by EA37TS View Post
Most dealers will just let the unit sit until a rookie gives them the asking price without an inspection or test drive. Might take one or two additional weeks of inventory time but they might even get more in the long run.

A knowledgeable buyer is a hassle to deal with for some dealers and they prefer you leave so they can get back to business their way.
Exactly...

In many ways I still view myself as newbie. However, I was fortunate enough to find this site well before my 1st purchase.

Twice we had cashiers check in hand, insurance paid for and made a trip to dealership to pick up a brand new Thor RV ( specifically a 2018 ACE 29.3 and later it would be a 2019 Winsport 27B). Both times the items found during PDIs were taxing on us. They tried to fix some things, but some was major and some they would not even agree they would repair (i.e. a ladder where they obviously had tried to repair several times, it was weak and sealant all over the screws were an eyesore; a rusted out hydraulic pump due to where a battery had exploded).

What I learned is exactly what you say, they did not believe we would walk from that deal . But they were wrong TWICE

It was a very hard thing to do, because we had told everyone and we were all excited, I couldn't believe they wouldn't simply say gives us two weeks and we will fix everything. They simply watched us walk without even a blink or nod. Before we got home, the RV was back up for sale and it was listed sale pending 1 week later, and sold 2 weeks after that. I am sure they found a buyer that probably paid more than us; plus did not note all of the PDI items we did.

The Winnebago 29VE was actually the 1st RV we seriously considered that had no PDI issues. We had to go to Florida to get it.


@Duckface

Just so you know for full disclosure... While I did not find any sawdust behind the rear access panel of the fridge, there was some dust on the ceiling, and I found some metal shavings in one of the outside compartment bays. They saw me see it and cleaned it; before my wife could write it down. They even gave us the can of spray cleaning solvent they used on ceiling, and said if we see anything more we could take care. I find it so convenient for some to take shots at the poor Mfg workers who may have forgot to vacuum the metal shavings etc. etc. Almost all of the issues I have seen and/or read about are things that happened while on the Dealer's lot.
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Old 08-30-2020, 06:11 PM   #83
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Brand: Thor Motor Coach
State: Missouri
Posts: 938
THOR #6903
Our last purchases have been at MHSRV due to factors. First price is great and as good if not better than many

Second is you stay overnight or two nights in their covered patios and the technicians come around the next morning and fix or show you how something works. You leave when your happy with your coach.

Something to consider but of course wouldn't have helped with the CV deal and not wanting the close contact

CV or not when we purchase again that is the way it will be done
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Old 08-30-2020, 10:38 PM   #84
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Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Freedom Elite 30FE
State: Arkansas
Posts: 276
THOR #12827
A Newbe performing a PDI is gonna be a lot different than an experienced RVír performing a PDI on a similar vehicle.
The Newbe, for the first part, doesnít have a clue what ďhiddenĒ things to look for while someone that has had a previous experience on what faults can occur know what to look for.
When we bought our ďslightly usedĒ (1068miles) class C, we felt we knew what to look for, being we had a TT prior to the purchase. We felt we were given a thorough explanation on how everything worked, checked to make sure all mechanical devices worked, fired up the propane fueled devices and gave it a thorough test drive.
What we failed to do is make sure the electrical side of the water heater was functional. Why? For one, we didnít think about it. Since it was a used unit, we figured the previous owner had worked through the kinks. And thirdly, we didnít allow the time for the water heater to fully heat a tank of water.
On our first camping trip, I turned on the electric side of the water heater and after 30 min or so, realized it wasnít working. Switched to propane and got hot water.
After getting home, I researched on-line for possible causes and did my own trouble shooting. On-line I found a possible cause with a circuit card in the outside access panel. Long story short, the manufacturer sent me a new card, which didnít fix the problem.
After tearing apart the stove/oven to access the water heater, I found a pinched power wire that had shorted out. This had to have come from the factory that way and was never detected because they never opps checked it at the factory and the previous owner either didnít noticed it, or blew it off. (Might have been part of his reason to trade it in)
I spliced in a new wire to fix the problem.
My point for all this is issues like this should have been detected before the RV left the factory. The dealer should have insured that the heater was working before they sold it.
There is so much that goes into building an RV, that unless quality is built in from the beginning, thing like this are going to happen and customers are going to be dissatisfied with the end product.
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Old 08-30-2020, 11:02 PM   #85
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Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: 2018 24.1 AXISSIXxSIX
State: Arizona
Posts: 2,485
THOR #13932
Rvchecklist
It's an app with 278? pdi items.
https://www.google.com/search?q=Rvch...obile&ie=UTF-8

Yellowpages
It's a book with lots of businesses who would have completed your PDI and walked you through every aspect of ownership.

Owners manuals
It's a binder bag with all the words.
It should have been asked for before you even drove the rv.

Internet.
If this forum was found AFTER your purchase...
Yeh, that 100% you and no one else in any court of judgement.


Some of you just need to take some blame.

No one EVEREVEREVER taught to trust a vehicle salesperson or to be uncautious during a major transaction. Nevereverever.

If you can't have diligence, buy some diligence... In advance.
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Old 08-30-2020, 11:55 PM   #86
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Brand: Still Looking
Model: Sunstar 29VE Winnebago
State: Texas
Posts: 842
THOR #13058
Quote:
Originally Posted by LandKO View Post
I researched on-line for possible causes and did my own trouble shooting. On-line I found a possible cause with a circuit card in the outside access panel. Long story short, the manufacturer sent me a new card, which didn’t fix the problem.
After tearing apart the stove/oven to access the water heater, I found a pinched power wire that had shorted out. This had to have come from the factory that way and was never detected because they never opps checked it at the factory and the previous owner either didn’t noticed it, or blew it off. (Might have been part of his reason to trade it in)
I spliced in a new wire to fix the problem.
My point for all this is issues like this should have been detected before the RV left the factory. The dealer should have insured that the heater was working before they sold it.
There is so much that goes into building an RV, that unless quality is built in from the beginning, thing like this are going to happen and customers are going to be dissatisfied with the end product.

Agree, that a newbie will not know as much about a PDI than an experienced person which makes the fact that some newbies don't even think they need, or should do a PDI even more disturbing. I used that widely circulated Axis PDI form created by Ed F. (retired Military Colonel) on this site.

What caused the wire to get pinched? How do you know when it happened?

Regardless, to me; your story speaks highly of the Heater Mfg or Thor? Seems like they sent you a circuit board to help you resolve the problem based on your diagnosis of fault.

I also agree that if power was shorted (not supplied) to the electric portion of hot water heater before it left factory, left dealer, end of 1st PDI, end of actual use by 1st owner, and by the end 2nd PDI, Only then noticed by 2nd owner there have been failures and misses. That is purpose of mfg warranties. You would have to check, but I am not sure that all extended warranties would cover this type of failure as they may focus on cause of the pinched wire?

If you or anyone expect every RV to be 100% defect free coming out of the factory that is delirious. I own a Lincoln, 2 Cadillacs, 2 Chevy's and a HD and they all have had recalls for Mfg defects and all have gone in for repairs for something that require fixing or adjusting. My Radio in my Navigator has been replaced 3 times (about $4k each time), but Lincoln replaced each time. We have 2014 Chevy Cruze Check engine light that seems to come on like the daytime running lights and after years of bogus fixes every year around inspection time; Chevy points out and issues a mfg defect. It is at Chevy dealership now.

Akin to your heater issue; we had gone years with a brand new Goodman upstairs AC unit. Only when putting in a newer electronic Wi-Fi style Sensi thermostat we noticed we were getting a low pressure sensor failure? Upon attempting to replace the exhaust fan sensor myself; I found a piece of cast iron pipe has fallen in the turbine blades ; so it could NOT spin thus the sensor pressure failure reading was actually correct. It has worked perfectly since. But we went 5 years with the AC never firing upstairs and NEVER noticed!!!! It could have been Mfg, or it could have been installer; but point was it was never caught and I don't have false illusions that those mistakes will never happen.

btw, Go Hogs Whooo Pig Sooie !!!
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Old 08-31-2020, 12:21 AM   #87
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Brand: Thor Motor Coach
Model: Freedom Elite 30FE
State: Arkansas
Posts: 276
THOR #12827
Quote:
Originally Posted by ducksface View Post
Rvchecklist
It's an app with 278? pdi items.
https://www.google.com/search?q=Rvch...obile&ie=UTF-8

Yellowpages
It's a book with lots of businesses who would have completed your PDI and walked you through every aspect of ownership.

Owners manuals
It's a binder bag with all the words.
It should have been asked for before you even drove the rv.

Internet.
If this forum was found AFTER your purchase...
Yeh, that 100% you and no one else in any court of judgement.


Some of you just need to take some blame.

No one EVEREVEREVER taught to trust a vehicle salesperson or to be uncautious during a major transaction. Nevereverever.

If you can't have diligence, buy some diligence... In advance.
Some good advice. To bad many RV buyers are either unaware of the availability of this data or donít have or bother to take the time to do this type of research. So yes, the buyer is partially responsible.
Itís always been Buyer Beware when purchasing a major item like this.
However, I take issue with a couple of your points.
I havenít seen a phone book yet alone, yellow pages in many years.
Yes, I got a manual with my RV. But, who reads an owners manual in its entirety before taking your purchase home. Iím sure no one reads their new car manual before taking their new car home. And, the Thor manual is somewhat lacking because they tried to make it one size fits all. I didnít find detailed information on my RV until weeks later when I got on-line and found the owners information on my particular unit on Thorís website. I found that through this forum. The dealer never mentioned it.
So yes, there is plenty of blame to go around. Given the way things are in the RV industry, maybe our expectations should be lower, but that flys in the face of the money we put out to buy one.
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