The electric powered rv you ordered is here....

[Chance]

Originally Posted by Bob Denman

You're only looking at the dollar side of the equation...
A small gas engine makes power in a completely different way. It';; hsve nowhere near the torque of a diesel; that's what gets the vehicle away from the stop signs...

If you are not going to take the time to read and understand what I wrote, I will very much appreciate it if you don’t comment at all.

When you misrepresent what I stated, or misrepresent my understanding of the subject matter as you did above, it makes it very tempting to reply back in a harsh way. And I really don’t want to lower myself to that level.

You often post just to post as if trying to reach 20,000 in record time, but for serious people like me, the nonsense gets really old fast.

[JamieGeek]

Originally Posted by atreis

Having owned a Honda Insight (old version, it had 190K miles when I traded it in) and two Prius cars (one has 125K on it, no problems, the other is still relatively new with only 35K on it), and having found them to be at least as reliable as non-Hybrid cars from their respective companies, the complexity doesn't have to be an issue if the system is done well.

I also think a full Hybrid would be a natural fit for RVs. The hybrid battery pack could also serve as the house batteries.

Yeah there has been a lot of discussion about a hybrid RV on the various "look at this electric XXX" topics for a while now.

I contend that Ford's new hybrid F-150 with its 7kW generator option would be perfect for an RV (as it is its perfect for anyone with a travel trailer or 5th wheel). Especially for a B or small C motorhome.

[Chance]

Originally Posted by JamieGeek

Yeah there has been a lot of discussion about a hybrid RV on the various "look at this electric XXX" topics for a while now.

I contend that Ford's new hybrid F-150 with its 7kW generator option would be perfect for an RV (as it is its perfect for anyone with a travel trailer or 5th wheel). Especially for a B or small C motorhome.

With its present battery capacity being so limited, I would worry that the pickup’s engine would be forced to run too long or two often if the camper was using significant power. With RV A/C on, for example, the engine may stay on. That would be OK for a pit/rest stop, but not boondocking overnight.

Also, 7 kW is based on 230-Volt power, which would support a 50-Amp service fairly well at reduced levels. With 30-Amp trailers, it may not be as great a match. I suppose it would run OK, but the inverter may be loaded unevenly to nearly 100% on one side. Wish we knew more about its inverter.

It would be nice if there was a 15~20 kWh battery option to power larger loads overnight without truck engine cycling on and off constantly, or idling all night.

[Bob Denman]

Originally Posted by Chance

Judge, the biggest problem I see with diesels for smaller motorhomes is that economics are against them, even if emissions wasn’t an issue at all. This is particularly the case when combined with Hybrid powertrain. And obviously environmental issues aren’t likely to get easier for diesels short term, if at all.

Notice Ford has delayed Transit diesel for 2 model years now, and it wouldn’t surprise me if they abandon the diesel altogether for Transit. It also appears that take rate for F-150 diesel is fairly low, and I personally expect the new hybrid F-150 will hurt diesel sales even more.

As a rough example on fuel costs: Assume compact motorhome is driven 5,000 miles per year (RV Industry average) and gets 10 MPG. That’s only 500 gallons of gas. At $3 per gallon, fuel costs would be around $1,500 annually.

A modern gas engine can be within 25% of fuel economy of a diesel, so even if fuel costs the same per gallon and there was no additional maintenance costs, if a diesel got 12.5 MPG (versus 10 MPG), it would use 400 gallons (versus 500). At $3 per gallon that represents $300 per year.

Note I’m being conservative, because if 25% difference is applied to higher MPG, savings are even less — as in 12 vs 15, or 16 vs 20 MPG, etc.

Anyway, that’s not a lot of fuel savings to justify a diesel over an EcoBoost V6, and you’d be giving up torque, a lot of power, and load capacity due to diesel’s much higher weight.

When a truck is driven 100,000 miles a year, fuel savings become important, but not at 5,000 miles per year.

Personally, for most motorhomes, I’d prefer a naturally aspirated V8 instead of V6 EcoBoost, and much more than a diesel. Even the cost of twin turbos and associated repair costs are a hard sell for me at 5,000 miles per year.

There’s a reason F-53 and E-Series don’t have diesel options, or EcoBoost for that matter.

Chance,
Okay: what did you REALLY mean?

[JamieGeek]

Originally Posted by Chance

With its present battery capacity being so limited, I would worry that the pickup’s engine would be forced to run too long or two often if the camper was using significant power. With RV A/C on, for example, the engine may stay on. That would be OK for a pit/rest stop, but not boondocking overnight.

Also, 7 kW is based on 230-Volt power, which would support a 50-Amp service fairly well at reduced levels. With 30-Amp trailers, it may not be as great a match. I suppose it would run OK, but the inverter may be loaded unevenly to nearly 100% on one side. Wish we knew more about its inverter.

It would be nice if there was a 15~20 kWh battery option to power larger loads overnight without truck engine cycling on and off constantly, or idling all night.

That i3 charge test illustrated a long duration at a high load which it handled admirably (high idle 1k rpm for 3-4 hours).

Yeah don't know what kind of "wear" of just running 30 amps for an extended period of time do.

[Chance]

Originally Posted by JamieGeek

That i3 charge test illustrated a long duration at a high load which it handled admirably (high idle 1k rpm for 3-4 hours).

Yeah don't know what kind of "wear" of just running 30 amps for an extended period of time do.

I don’t know how many owners boondocking would want their pickup’s engine running constantly just to power a trailer’s air conditioner. Just seems inefficient even if wear isn’t an issue. If truck engine has to run most of the time, you might as well have a generator.

On the other hand powering a TV all day or a microwave for a few minutes at a time could be handled easily by F-150. But being fair, that can also be handle by conventional batteries, solar, and inverter.

Don’t get me wrong, I really like the 7.2 kW Pro Power Onboard, but the tiny battery will limit its full potential. If Ford install similar system in a Transit van as a plug-in hybrid (large battery), I think that would make a great camper.

[Bob Denman]

I agree: if they can find the space for a larger battery:

[lwmcguire]

We really should be looking at truly renewable energy policies including RV's and digging up the earth in pursuit of rare earth metals isn't sustainable.

Green energy takes huge quantities of materials form mining and hydrocarbons to produce. EV's do have their place but we need a better battery made from readily available components before we go crazy building them

Check it out and see what it entails to build huge batteries and where those elements come from

The rush to get off hydrocarbons per say is simply nuts until more advances in battery technology happen

EV's in crowded cities sure, but out in the open, why?

[ducksface]

Originally Posted by lwmcguire

We really should be looking at truly renewable energy policies including RV's and digging up the earth in pursuit of rare earth metals isn't sustainable.

Green energy takes huge quantities of materials form mining and hydrocarbons to produce. EV's do have their place but we need a better battery made from readily available components before we go crazy building them

Check it out and see what it entails to build huge batteries and where those elements come from

The rush to get off hydrocarbons per say is simply nuts until more advances in battery technology happen

EV's in crowded cities sure, but out in the open, why?

There is no why.
There is only want.


It takes about 20 minutes research and thought to discount almost 89%of the green theories.
We're not mentally ready for it, aren't scientifically ready for it and it can't work.

About the raw materials:
It's not in my backyard, I don't see it, it doesn't exist.


Take the private jet to be guest speaker on earth day.
A blank stare is all that's needed when confronted.

In the early days of the gold rush, water cannons were used.
We're in a green gold rush and using water cannons.
More experiment, less application should be the plan.

[Bob Denman]

I think that the current crop of EVs and hybrids are a stepping stone to hydrogen fuell cell vehicles.
(something like the Honda Clarity)
But there is no infrastructure ready to support them yet; so we're caught between competing fuel sources.

[JamieGeek]

Originally Posted by Bob Denman

I think that the current crop of EVs and hybrids are a stepping stone to hydrogen fuell cell vehicles.
(something like the Honda Clarity)
But there is no infrastructure ready to support them yet; so we're caught between competing fuel sources.

Naah; I don't think H2 is going anywhere. Its far too difficult to transport and store. By the time that is solved battery tech will be so far ahead.

https://arstechnica.com/science/2020...e-last-decade/

[Bob Denman]

But we'll soon need a serious upgrade to the power grid...

[JamieGeek]

Originally Posted by Bob Denman

But we'll soon need a serious upgrade to the power grid...

I don't think so there either: It will take quite some time to sell that many EV's; at least enough to overload the current grid.

That time will be used to catch up.

Even then, the vast majority of EV's charge overnight when the grid isn't being over taxed and thus help with base loading.

[lwmcguire]

We as a country or perhaps as a world seem to be ignoring that China controls about 90% of the rare earth elements required for our electronics and EV batteries

That scenario will play out at some point in time

We are selling hundreds of EV's now daily so it will geometrically increase each year

In the Midwest new high line construction has been going on for years and several projects at any given time

I think the delivery trucks and local semis will be the ones using most of the increase in power

Way back in my TN days we had electric water heat controlled by microwave towers and got a better rate by allowing it to be interrupted

Now we have smart meters on all our locations where we have power and that will easily allow power to be distributed or controlled

There will be significant local work installing new rapid chargers and 240 volts in many garages and so on

going to be interesting and for me I just hope we don't see the 5 dollar diesel many of the greenies want

[JamieGeek]

Originally Posted by lwmcguire

We as a country or perhaps as a world seem to be ignoring that China controls about 90% of the rare earth elements required for our electronics and EV batteries

That scenario will play out at some point in time

We are selling hundreds of EV's now daily so it will geometrically increase each year

In the Midwest new high line construction has been going on for years and several projects at any given time

I think the delivery trucks and local semis will be the ones using most of the increase in power

Way back in my TN days we had electric water heat controlled by microwave towers and got a better rate by allowing it to be interrupted

Now we have smart meters on all our locations where we have power and that will easily allow power to be distributed or controlled

There will be significant local work installing new rapid chargers and 240 volts in many garages and so on

going to be interesting and for me I just hope we don't see the 5 dollar diesel many of the greenies want

Sources for rare earths are being found all over the place (notably off the coast of Japan and elsewhere).

In addition to that rare earths are being designed out of EVs (at least Tesla is doing its best to minize their use).

[Bob Denman]

https://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-l...rcedes/3021121

[JamieGeek]

Yeah that one was pretty funny...

[Bob Denman]

Did you catch M-B's response to it?
(They LOVED it, and showed off the charging system for it... )

[JamieGeek]

Originally Posted by Bob Denman

Did you catch M-B's response to it?
(They LOVED it, and showed off the charging system for it... )

LOL! Nope missed that.

The ironic thing about that is that Tesla's use small cells similar in size to AA batteries.

[Bob Denman]

Remind me to purchase more stock in Duracell...