The electric powered rv you ordered is here....

[ducksface]

https://www.autoblog.com/2020/12/16/...#slide-2244822

It's being built in collaboration with camping world.
What a trick.
The only one you can buy comes from the company you trust the least.

In related news:
See's Candy will be the official repair center for SpaceX rockets.

[Bob Denman]

Seriously: I hope that Lordstown Motors can make it work.

[JamieGeek]

Still think battery tech isn't there.

It will either have meh range (like barely 200 miles) or no cargo capacity or so much battery that it will take 3 days to recharge after going 300 miles.

[Bob Denman]

Lordstown is planning on building a pickup. Hopefully they can ramp up that technology, and make it work for this application.
But you're right: we need something to pop in the battery design department.

[atreis]

Originally Posted by JamieGeek

It will either have meh range (like barely 200 miles) or no cargo capacity or so much battery that it will take 3 days to recharge after going 300 miles.

Something like a Class B (not "B+", but a true B) size might work okay with current technology, but not bigger than that.

[Bob Denman]

Cover that B's roof with solar panels, and you've got a deal!

[JamieGeek]

Originally Posted by atreis

Something like a Class B (not "B+", but a true B) size might work okay with current technology, but not bigger than that.

Exactly.

Even at that, however, Ford's new electric Transit will only have 150-200 miles of range.

[Chance]

For motorhome use, replacing gas, propane or diesel generator with lithium batteries will be far easier and more practical than replacing the main vehicle’s engine with battery electric. I expect most motorhomes will convert to lithium house electrical in lieu of generators before we see many electric-powered motorhomes.


“The two partners will also develop a lithium-ion battery pack capable of replacing the gasoline-powered generator found in many RVs and travel trailers currently on the market, and they want to put Good Sam charging stations at Camping World locations around the nation to ensure travelers stay juiced up.”

[Bob Denman]

It sounds as if they're also planning for infrastructure upgrades... excellent!

[JamieGeek]

Originally Posted by Chance

“The two partners will also develop a lithium-ion battery pack capable of replacing the gasoline-powered generator found in many RVs and travel trailers currently on the market, and they want to put Good Sam charging stations at Camping World locations around the nation to ensure travelers stay juiced up.”

That reads more like the chargers are more for the Endurance Pickup than any potential Electric RV in the future (it is likely they will only be Level-2 chargers maxing out at ~10kW--it would be great if they were DCFC's at some level >150kW but most private businesses that install DCFC's go with a paltry 50kW).

BTW: This is also in discussion on the Mach-E forums!
https://www.macheforum.com/site/thre...ng-world.2386/

[Chance]

Originally Posted by JamieGeek

That reads more like the chargers are more for the Endurance Pickup than any potential Electric RV in the future (it is likely they will only be Level-2 chargers maxing out at ~10kW--it would be great if they were DCFC's at some level >150kW but most private businesses that install DCFC's go with a paltry 50kW).

BTW: This is also in discussion on the Mach-E forums!
https://www.macheforum.com/site/thre...ng-world.2386/

Yeah. As discussed in this forum a while back, a hybrid makes a lot more sense for RV use at this time. The F-150’s hybrid design with much greater battery capacity to power A/C or electric heat would make RV more user friendly. The justification can’t be based solely or primarily on vehicle fuel savings because motorhomes don’t get driven enough. On the other hand, if going electric improves motorhome camping, it may create much more demand.

For what it’s worth, I think the F-150’s hybrid drivetrain could work in Transit, but I think a naturally aspirated V8 would be a better choice for RV use. For larger E-Series and F-53 chassis a V8 would almost be necessary over a small 3.5L twin-turbo V6.

[Judge]

Originally Posted by Chance

For what it’s worth, I think the F-150’s hybrid drivetrain could work in Transit, but I think a naturally aspirated V8 would be a better choice for RV use. For larger E-Series and F-53 chassis a V8 would almost be necessary over a small 3.5L twin-turbo V6.

Don't rule out a 4 or 6 cylinder turbo diesel for smaller RV's to get MPG ratings up while battery technology evolves over the next 10 - 20 years to support large and heavy vehicles.

I had a 2013 Chevy Silverado 5.3L V8 and it got about 12 MPG empty in the city and only slightly better on the highway. I got about 8MPG pulling my snowmobile trailer. After getting our Magnitude SV34 I was sold on diesel for power and fuel economy and wanted to replace the Silverado.

I wanted a diesel pickup truck but getting a new 3/4 ton diesel was almost as much as buying my first motorhome and used full size diesels were crazy expensive too.

A year ago we bought a used 2018 GMC Canyon Denali with the 2.8L Duramax Turbo Diesel. It has a 7600lb towing capacity. I get 12MPG pulling the snowmobile trailer and 26MPG in the city and over 30 on the highway.

I could see the little Duramax being in a Class B and a larger V6 diesel being a great option for a lot of Class C's for better performance and fuel economy based on my experience with the it.

[Bob Denman]

There's no doubt that sticking a "hairdryer" on top of a small engine; will turn it into a World Class overachiever.

[Chance]

Originally Posted by Judge

Don't rule out a 4 or 6 cylinder turbo diesel for smaller RV's to get MPG ratings up while battery technology evolves over the next 10 - 20 years to support large and heavy vehicles.

I had a 2013 Chevy Silverado 5.3L V8 and it got about 12 MPG empty in the city and only slightly better on the highway. I got about 8MPG pulling my snowmobile trailer. After getting our Magnitude SV34 I was sold on diesel for power and fuel economy and wanted to replace the Silverado.

I wanted a diesel pickup truck but getting a new 3/4 ton diesel was almost as much as buying my first motorhome and used full size diesels were crazy expensive too.

A year ago we bought a used 2018 GMC Canyon Denali with the 2.8L Duramax Turbo Diesel. It has a 7600lb towing capacity. I get 12MPG pulling the snowmobile trailer and 26MPG in the city and over 30 on the highway.

I could see the little Duramax being in a Class B and a larger V6 diesel being a great option for a lot of Class C's for better performance and fuel economy based on my experience with the it.

Judge, the biggest problem I see with diesels for smaller motorhomes is that economics are against them, even if emissions wasn’t an issue at all. This is particularly the case when combined with Hybrid powertrain. And obviously environmental issues aren’t likely to get easier for diesels short term, if at all.

Notice Ford has delayed Transit diesel for 2 model years now, and it wouldn’t surprise me if they abandon the diesel altogether for Transit. It also appears that take rate for F-150 diesel is fairly low, and I personally expect the new hybrid F-150 will hurt diesel sales even more.

As a rough example on fuel costs: Assume compact motorhome is driven 5,000 miles per year (RV Industry average) and gets 10 MPG. That’s only 500 gallons of gas. At $3 per gallon, fuel costs would be around $1,500 annually.

A modern gas engine can be within 25% of fuel economy of a diesel, so even if fuel costs the same per gallon and there was no additional maintenance costs, if a diesel got 12.5 MPG (versus 10 MPG), it would use 400 gallons (versus 500). At $3 per gallon that represents $300 per year.

Note I’m being conservative, because if 25% difference is applied to higher MPG, savings are even less — as in 12 vs 15, or 16 vs 20 MPG, etc.

Anyway, that’s not a lot of fuel savings to justify a diesel over an EcoBoost V6, and you’d be giving up torque, a lot of power, and load capacity due to diesel’s much higher weight.

When a truck is driven 100,000 miles a year, fuel savings become important, but not at 5,000 miles per year.

Personally, for most motorhomes, I’d prefer a naturally aspirated V8 instead of V6 EcoBoost, and much more than a diesel. Even the cost of twin turbos and associated repair costs are a hard sell for me at 5,000 miles per year.

There’s a reason F-53 and E-Series don’t have diesel options, or EcoBoost for that matter.

[Bob Denman]

You're only looking at the dollar side of the equation...
A small gas engine makes power in a completely different way. It';; hsve nowhere near the torque of a diesel; that's what gets the vehicle away from the stop signs...

[JamieGeek]

Originally Posted by Bob Denman

You're only looking at the dollar side of the equation...
A small gas engine makes power in a completely different way. It';; hsve nowhere near the torque of a diesel; that's what gets the vehicle away from the stop signs...

Kind of why a hybrid is a good solution: the electric motor has tons of torque down low... of course if the motor isn't very big it doesn't help much them.

[ducksface]

There was a silverado hybrid way back in maybe 2010.
Any word on the actual user value of these?
The fuel mileage increase was due to lab tests and 3:08 gears.

It was a really stupid 'hey! Look at me!' gm thing .
But did it do what you all expect such a thing to do?


Diesel is just a liiittttlllleee bit cultish....
I drove them for years. The Lincoln had a BMW engine in it. The Mazda 626 came with a certificate for a new head gasket at 60k miles, my Olds was one of the few that worked perfectly, the Peugeot 504 was an all time favorite. I bought them because they were wwwwaaaaaayyyyy back of book.
I didn't fit the demographic.

[JamieGeek]

Originally Posted by ducksface

There was a silverado hybrid way back in maybe 2010.
Any word on the actual user value of these?
The fuel mileage increase was due to lab tests and 3:08 gears.

It was a really stupid 'hey! Look at me!' gm thing .
But did it do what you all expect such a thing to do?


Diesel is just a liiittttlllleee bit cultish....
I drove them for years. The Lincoln had a BMW engine in it. The Mazda 626 came with a certificate for a new head gasket at 60k miles, my Olds was one of the few that worked perfectly, the Peugeot 504 was an all time favorite. I bought them because they were wwwwaaaaaayyyyy back of book.
I didn't fit the demographic.

The GM hybrid was what is known as a "mild hybrid" and really didn't do much at all.

[Bob Denman]

Originally Posted by JamieGeek

Kind of why a hybrid is a good solution: the electric motor has tons of torque down low... of course if the motor isn't very big it doesn't help much them.

Yup! The best of both Worlds...
... if you don't mind the complexity!

[atreis]

Originally Posted by Bob Denman

Yup! The best of both Worlds...
... if you don't mind the complexity!

Having owned a Honda Insight (old version, it had 190K miles when I traded it in) and two Prius cars (one has 125K on it, no problems, the other is still relatively new with only 35K on it), and having found them to be at least as reliable as non-Hybrid cars from their respective companies, the complexity doesn't have to be an issue if the system is done well.

I also think a full Hybrid would be a natural fit for RVs. The hybrid battery pack could also serve as the house batteries.