New Ford V8 Godzilla your not

[RACarvalho]

Originally Posted by Long & Winding road

RAC...

What do you mean "no benefit". They are much quieter, much lower maintain, cheaper to run, plus the big Benefit... Zero polution. Sure I know the manufacturing process is polluting and the grid can be dirty (for recharging). But give it time (7 years?) and it will be much cleaner than ICE.

Plus EVERY MAGAZINE raves over the EV instant power, handling and ease to drive (one pedal driving) so that will be an impovement over ICE. Not to mention the self drive feature that many will offer.

Im like U, unit the price is the same (or less) than ICE, and until I can get around 500 miles per a single charge, until most roads have like 15/20 min quick recharge (for road trips - normally I will just charge at home)... then I would purchase one.

But keep in mind in about 7 or 10 years you wont have a choice for a "new" car purchase. THey will all be EV. So like it or not this is what is comming.

Long,
to be fair we are comparing a technology with 100 years of improvement with one with maybe 30(?)
When I say benefits I'm talking about real differential, like you mentioned model T.
It was more expensive than horse and bugey (baseline) but it went way farther, faster, could carry more load, etc... it literally transformed the pace of society and for good. People could do more in the same time therefore they could earn more.... Same thing with computers, smartphones, etc.

What an electric car do that a gas version can't? NOTHING

So the only alternative for it to benefit society is cost... which is way out there...
EVs are not a disrupter (like ICE when it came) but it costs as much for society to implement... Really bad business, if you consider that you can produce a ICE OPOC engine today that makes a F150 do 53 mpg in real life test...
Ohio state University said that if we apply to ICE all that we already know, cars would easily do 70mpg on highway... <= This development is being on hold because EVs hype.. So we are comparing EV with ICEs that have the price pump up, gas pump up, development on hold and yet EV are really not cost effective...
So the cost advantage is not there... It is like if the sales man in 1900 trying to sell the Model T to a shop owner and when he is asked what the benefits are the guy selling the model T would say: It will run 1/2 what the horse run in a day, carry 1/4 of what the bugy can carry, cost 3 times more but hey, it looks way better and can beat your horse on 0-10mph.... makes sense?

Now down to the benefits:
Silence: Yes, it is silent but would you pay twice the price for the house you have today to get absolute silence inside? Have you noticed how silent current ICEs are?
Maintenance cost: You need to consider the total life of the vehicle to compare. The battery of a Toyota prius cost today $13K dollars and is failing at 100K miles... Someone can say that they would sell before 100K miles but anyway it is a cost.
Cheaper to run: Compared to what? Have you compared a Honda Civic on highway vs Model Y when the gasoline price is $1.85/galon CONSIDERING DEPRETIATION?
Zero Pollution: This is a huge misconception. If we will talk about that effort and $ to chage due pollution we need to consider the entire production chain, otherwise we are just transferring pollution from one corner of earth to another. To make it simple the difference between the two options is the drivetrain. After 100s of years of development, ICE production chain and materials got down to the lowest environmental impact in history...
EVs use a large amount of elements which processes are so dirty and toxic that their mining/processing are forbidden in North America and Europe like Nyodimium and Dysposioum (needed to make strong magnets for the motors). China has ~90% of the Nyodimium mining because of that...(yes, after getting self sufficient in oil we will become dependent on China...)
Have you noticed that you don't see back smoke out of truck pipes anymore? The polution you see in highly populated areas today (which doesn't exist in other areas so it is not a global problem) is caused by bad urban development... Too many people is too small space add that to local climate patterns and boom...
So I get back to my point that large scale adoption of EVs really don't bring any benefit to society but a huge cost.

[16ACE27]

Electric cars have been around as long AS ICE cars, so same time period to develop technologically. Heck, there were Lectra cars in the early 80s using Datsun gliders as their base, some are still around.

But what does any of this electric car discussion have to do with the new Ford V-8 in MHs? Make another thread and leave this one ON TOPIC.

[RACarvalho]

Originally Posted by 16ACE27

But what does any of this electric car discussion have to do with the new Ford V-8 in MHs? Make another thread and leave this one ON TOPIC.

Roger that!
Sorry!!!

[Long & Winding road]

I see what your saying.... but your talking about NOW> Im talking about the near future..... Very soon they will be as cheap or cheaper to ICE (and much cleaner). And it would make more sense to change to EV's. It takes time to perfect the new tech.

I think this is were everyone is getting hung up. The EV market will expode over the next few years.

So in like 5 to 7 years the EV market will be vastly improved over todays EV's.

I see what your saying about the model T vs the EV tech. So the next big step forward will be flying cars. Its coming, just wait a little longer. LOL.

But im more comparing the 1950's to 2021 auto tech. Sure they cars do the same thing as before but the new cars still vastly improved in every way and much safer.

[Chance]

Originally Posted by RACarvalho

You are confusing reality with negativity and pipe dream with possibilities.
I'm just showing you REAL LIFE OBSTACLES and CONSEQUENCES to a proposed alternative ENERGY SYSTEM.
You can execute something only when you face the obstacles and eliminate them.

Show me a battery technology that can REDUCE THE PRICE OF THE VEHICLE IN 30% and then I will agree with you.

I have a family member who purchased one of the first Tesla S years ago, replacing a BMW before that. He absolutely loved it so much that he just traded it for a new Tesla Model S with larger battery, 400 miles of range, and the acceleration of a supercar.

“Reality” is that he loved the car enough to buy another, so it’s not a pipe dream for some. He voted otherwise with his wallet this year. Not 5 or 7 years from now. This year.

You want ICE, buy ICE — I don’t have a problem with that. I personally love a large V8 like the 7.3L for a motorhome. But I also see many advantages right now for an electric vehicle as our second car. Everything is not limited to its cost or payback.

[Chance]

Originally Posted by 16ACE27

But what the consumer wants to know is: When do I break even after paying the "upcharge" for my EV over a comparable ICE vehicle.

Depending on what buyer wants, there may not be a comparable ICE vehicle.

That point is missing from this discussion entirely.

[Chance]

Back to OP, new V8 over V10 any day.

[Bill Johnson]

Tesla 8 year unlimited mileage battery warranty

[Metalman]

Originally Posted by RACarvalho

...Maintenance cost: You need to consider the total life of the vehicle to compare. The battery of a Toyota prius cost today $13K dollars and is failing at 100K miles...

Not sure where you are getting your numbers, but check the current cost for a new Prius battery and you will find that they are almost a tenth of your $13K. Prius vehicles can easily go over 100K miles on the original battery.

[Bill Johnson]

Originally Posted by Metalman

Not sure where you are getting your numbers, but check the current cost for a new Prius battery and you will find that they are almost a tenth of your $13K. Prius vehicles can easily go over 100K miles on the original battery.

Toyota's Hybrid Battery Warranty is 10 years or 150,000 miles

[kwplot34]

Originally Posted by Long & Winding road

RAC...

What do you mean "no benefit". They are much quieter, much lower maintain, cheaper to run, plus the big Benefit... Zero polution. Sure I know the manufacturing process is polluting and the grid can be dirty (for recharging). But give it time (7 years?) and it will be much cleaner than ICE.

Plus EVERY MAGAZINE raves over the EV instant power, handling and ease to drive (one pedal driving) so that will be an impovement over ICE. Not to mention the self drive feature that many will offer.

Im like U, unit the price is the same (or less) than ICE, and until I can get around 500 miles per a single charge, until most roads have like 15/20 min quick recharge (for road trips - normally I will just charge at home)... then I would purchase one.

But keep in mind in about 7 or 10 years you wont have a choice for a "new" car purchase. THey will all be EV. So like it or not this is what is comming.

I'm sorry but you just made me LOL and spit a drink out all over my computer with these statements. Much quieter, yeah maybe a little bit. But as for the rest LOLOL, The BIGGEST one that made me laugh was the ZERO pollution, comic gold right there.

[Chance]

Electric vehicles have many advantages and also disadvantages compared to ICE that haven’t been discussed yet, but as ACE suggested, maybe best to start a new thread instead of expanding on Godzilla V8.

[Traina]

Originally Posted by Luke D

Well besides the well known spark plug wire and coil issues, the real issue is poor motor home mpg. Was in Bryce Canyon and it was cool to meet up with four new ford V8 motor home owners. Best mpg in the group was Bob and Karen from Tucson AZ. With 3200 miles on their coach they were averaging 8.2.
Bob said it was a disappointment but he suspects that once the coaches get married to the new 8 speed transmission there should be an improvement. For now even with the new F53 chassis Ford is supplying the six speed.
David Field an his wife Sheri are experiencing misfires. For what has been research it falls under the China spark plug wire and coils Ford used. The good news, no power or torque complaints. Also everyone was happy with the new chassis with 22 inch tires. They all said ride was stable and comfortable. The only other semi complaint was engine noise when climbing or on higher revs.
I’m sure Ford will get the bugs out soon. As in any other new design it takes time.
Hopefully this helps future buyers. The more information you can gather the better. Word of mouth is the best tool. Gina and Richard harkened back to their previous Forest River V-10. Over 78k on her never an engine problem. But they do love their 2021 Integra.

Happy thanksgiving all
Enjoy stay safe

I have 21 ACE 27.2 with new v8 but transmission is 6 speed. I also average 8.5 on flat roads in Florida.

[chunker21]

Originally Posted by Traina

I have 21 ACE 27.2 with new v8 but transmission is 6 speed. I also average 8.5 on flat roads in Florida.

In the F550 Ford puts in the 10 speed and it's a very smooth seamless shifting.

[Chance]

Originally Posted by Traina

I have 21 ACE 27.2 with new v8 but transmission is 6 speed. I also average 8.5 on flat roads in Florida.

All new F-53 motorhome chassis with 7.3L pushrod V8 come with 6-speed 6R140 transmission. That’s not necessarily a bad thing since Ford installs that transmission in the heaviest of their trucks, the F-650 and F-750.

Regarding fuel economy, 6 speeds is already very good. More gears beyond that starts to approach diminishing returns with existing engines.

[16ACE27]

Originally Posted by Chance

All new F-53 motorhome chassis with 7.3L pushrod V8 come with 6-speed 6R140 transmission. That’s not necessarily a bad thing since Ford installs that transmission in the heaviest of their trucks, the F-650 and F-750.

Regarding fuel economy, 6 speeds is already very good. More gears beyond that starts to approach diminishing returns with existing engines.

Anything above the 6 speed really only helps when a truck is UNLOADED. Since a MH is never unloaded, like you said, not any real benefit.

[Chateau_Nomad]

On paper and "technical" marketing literature, the newer 7.3 V-8 does have somewhat better power/torque qualities. But reports from REAL WORLD USE show a lackluster gain in any metric that significantly benefits the end user: Acceleration, hill climbing at reasonable RPMs and mileage. NONE of those metrics blow the legacy V-10 away. They are very slight improvements at best.

The largest gains show in the E-350/E-450 chassis. You can look up and compare the specs for the 2019 stripped chassis vs 2020. Notice the F-53 saw little, if any gains in both horsepower and torque. However there was a much larger jump in both for the cutaway chassis. My guess is the favorable reviews are mostly coming from owners of previous cutaway E-Series motorhomes who bought a new E-Series with the new V-8 powertrain, because the specs difference in the F-53 chassis just aren't significant enough to make a real world noticeable difference... other than a placebo effect.

So why the new engine?? Most people SHOULD have figured out by now that Ford's decision to replace the 6.8 V-10 with the 7.3 V-8 was likely NOT a marketing decision. It was likely a design/engineering decision that just happened to have some marketing glitter thrown in for show - being the slight torque increase, and the slight horsepower gain. Marketing decisions are ALWAYS steered by financial gains/losses.

As is typical, the decision to introduce the new powertrain likely came from cost/efficiency decisions. A 10 cylinder configuration is an outlier in a V-8 lineup. Engineers were probably tasked with creating the new powerplant primarily to fit into the 8-cylinder scheme of manufacturing, while keeping the technical aspects similar to the legacy V-10 it would replace.

There is just not enough evidence to show that Ford would discontinue a PROVEN and extremely reliable "20+ year run" drive train simply for the (now public) performance differences. And Ford doesn't simply change something THAT major "just to change". Proof of that is in how they STILL build 4-wheel drive trains from 40 year old parts bins.

My take is that this was an engineering decision forced by financial mandates. The bulk of the "new" V-8 can be built using existing production lines. The V-10 required a completely different block, heads etc. Then - marketing was tasked with making the switch appear like a "customer benefit" decision.

Another benefit (icing on the cake) for Ford is the production of highly tuneable "crate" versions of the Godzilla engine. There's a HUGE number of existing cars/trucks out there where a V-8 will easily pop in to replace an existing V-8... the V-10 was tuneable, but try fitting that longer block into a V-8 engine bay...

[galOnTheGo]

I very much like my v10, would rather have v10 than v8 -
More cylinders = more power pulses = more power for the same engine size, and also smoother. Down side is more mechanical complexity so more parts to break, although 8 vs 10 isn't much more. Fewer, bigger cylinders = less power pulses = less power for same engine size.
A cylinder is the power unit of an engine; it's the chamber where the fuel is burned and turned into power. ... Generally, an engine with more cylinders produces more power, while an engine with fewer cylinders gets better fuel economy, but must work more.
Engine power is the product of torque and speed (rpm). To maximize engine power, the speed must be kept as high as possible, within limits. Increasing cylinder size will limit the speed at which the engine can be run due to the speed of the combustion process inside the combustion space.

The more cylinders on a vehicle, the more pistons are pumping. The result is more power being generated in a shorter amount of time. The engine doesn't have to work as hard to reach higher speeds. A vehicle with higher cylinder numbers will be better equipped to carry heavier loads.
What is torque in a motor?
Applied to internal combustion engines or electric motors, torque indicates the force to which the drive shaft is subjected. Torque is expressed in pound-feet (lb-ft) or newton-meters (Nm). The interaction of torque and engine speed (rpm) determines the engine power.

that concludes my class for today, I hope you learned something and enjoyed it.
I went to college for automotive engineering (but didn't like interfacing with the public, so I went back to school and got into computer software, where the computer always does what I tell it to. I just need to be aware it is what I instructed it to do).

happy trails.

[Scubawise]

First time drove back roads in Alabama filled tank got 200 miles on a quarter tank .speeds between 35 and 55

Maybe I will start driving slower

[16ACE27]

Originally Posted by galOnTheGo

I very much like my v10, would rather have v10 than v8 -
More cylinders = more power pulses = more power for the same engine size, and also smoother. Down side is more mechanical complexity so more parts to break, although 8 vs 10 isn't much more. Fewer, bigger cylinders = less power pulses = less power for same engine size.
A cylinder is the power unit of an engine; it's the chamber where the fuel is burned and turned into power. ... Generally, an engine with more cylinders produces more power, while an engine with fewer cylinders gets better fuel economy, but must work more.
Engine power is the product of torque and speed (rpm). To maximize engine power, the speed must be kept as high as possible, within limits. Increasing cylinder size will limit the speed at which the engine can be run due to the speed of the combustion process inside the combustion space.

The more cylinders on a vehicle, the more pistons are pumping. The result is more power being generated in a shorter amount of time. The engine doesn't have to work as hard to reach higher speeds. A vehicle with higher cylinder numbers will be better equipped to carry heavier loads.
What is torque in a motor?
Applied to internal combustion engines or electric motors, torque indicates the force to which the drive shaft is subjected. Torque is expressed in pound-feet (lb-ft) or newton-meters (Nm). The interaction of torque and engine speed (rpm) determines the engine power.

that concludes my class for today, I hope you learned something and enjoyed it.
I went to college for automotive engineering (but didn't like interfacing with the public, so I went back to school and got into computer software, where the computer always does what I tell it to. I just need to be aware it is what I instructed it to do).

happy trails.

Sorry, that's not the way it works, waaaaay too many other variables in the "power" equation for an internal combustion engine.

But you're certainly entitled to like the V10 over the V8 - you aren't alone in that regard.