THOR buys Airxcel

[Chance]

Originally Posted by lwmcguire

My three ducted AirXcel units work very well on heat or AC
Zone control is great also

They are ahead of the competition however DC and so on split units are good of course

There has to be a reason they haven't made it on RV'S

My guess is lack of demand until recently because it was much easier to add a second A/C unit and or run a generator when needed. Most RVers don’t need high efficiency air conditioning because they don’t camp that many hours a year (for energy costs to be a major factor), and when they do, it’s often at a campground with hookups where power isn’t an issue.

In my opinion the interest in DC and much higher efficiency air conditioners started when needing to power A/C from batteries. Commercial trucks were some of the first due to no idling laws, and efficient A/C reduces required battery capacity and therefore weight. It also explains the small size of these air conditioners meant to cool a truck’s cab at night. Commercial fleets can also pay more for high quality equipment meant to operate a lot more hours than the average RV.

The next step was for a few DIY van builders to add these small and efficient DC air conditioners (mostly from Europe as far as I know) to run off lithium batteries. Class B manufacturer’s then followed. And Dave is right that cost is expensive, unless purchasing cheap stuff that is now starting to become more common.

Mini-split technology should be applied to RV air conditioners as soon as possible in my opinion, but we have to keep in mind that what makes them efficient is largely their size. No one wants a huge A/C on their RV roof, so they will have to repackage somehow. And for most RVs that are only used occasionally, it’s difficult to justify the added A/C cost or size in my opinion.

RVers wanting to boondock without generator power, yet have A/C at least through night, will create enough demand for newer efficient A/Cs. It’s already happening.

[Bob Denman]

Originally Posted by Chateau_Nomad

A classic Goliath crushes competition. This is exactly what the big boxers have done in small town America. It's also why I always make every effort to buy from "main street America" first if possible... which is becoming very difficult with closed/vacant mom & pops turning into the new ghetto.

Vertical consolidation has been accelerating since the 1970s, and we're witness to the results... great for some... not so great for others.

Conan said it the best:
This isn't a sandbox, and nobody isn't playing for keeps!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzvFNLAnYNw

[TurnerFam]

Originally Posted by jjoster56

Agree Nomad. Vertical integration has been taught in business schools for years. Given all of the recent supply chain problems, it seems like a good business decision.

This is typical in ANY business, whether RV manufacturing, FOOD supply and processing, or anything else for that matter. Why folks seem to get their dander up 'just because' Thor decides to do something 'business related' makes no sense to me - as though 'no one' should ever be able to buy, purchase, sell, change, or integrate their business with another.
I dare say that the folks who are negative and berate Thor's purchase decision to look into their own 'precious' and 'local' and 'home grown' business they do 'business' with and I'll bet this happens/happened to those as well.

Business is not static. Business changes all the time, whether totally internally, or whether externally, whether by growing business from within, or growing business by acquisition. I'll bet that if AirXcel was not in FAVOR of this happening, well, it wouldn't have happened. It takes two to tango.

And, no, Thor has no intent to 'block' the market - that would be business suicide - that's just another crazy 'assumption' some will put on this transaction, as though Thor wants to integrate this business 'only' for their own needs - the article states already that Thor is only 30% of the AirXcel business, so it's certainly NOT the intent to only serve Thor.
THOR has NEVER purchased ANY manufacturer, or supplier, including our precious AIRSTREAM, for anything other than success: AIRSTREAM is still in business BECAUSE of Thor's purchase.

[Chance]

I must be missing much between the lines because I didn’t see any comments berating Thor or anyone getting their dander up over this purchase. Seriously, unless one is highly invested in Thor stock, why would anyone really care that much anyways?

It seemed like no more than a pleasant discussion to me.

[Bob Denman]

Originally Posted by Chance

...It seemed like no more than a pleasant discussion to me.

Do you think that something is wrong with is purchase?

[16ACE27]

Originally Posted by Chance

I must be missing much between the lines because I didn’t see any comments berating Thor or anyone getting their dander up over this purchase. Seriously, unless one is highly invested in Thor stock, why would anyone really care that much anyways?

It seemed like no more than a pleasant discussion to me.

You didn't read the OP?

There goes another company.

[Chateau_Nomad]

My opinion was neither negative or positive... simply stating an observation of facts. Thor is merely doing what has become the norm for large corporations with available financial backing. You can spin it any way you like, but facts don't change. The "bigs" are growing exponentially larger, and "main street" is being pushed out. Good or bad... depends on your viewpoint, but that is fact. Just part of a progression which began about 50 years ago.

Make no mistake... Thor Industries has evolved into primarily a financial investment entity... who just happens to manufacturer RVs. Will they go the way Briggs & Stratton did, or continue reinventing/reinvesting to stay afloat? Thor obviously has billions in available financial clout to acquire any threat to their business model.

For anyone with connections to financial backing, you can jump into the fray... start your own RV company. Look at Grand Design's history. By design? You decide.

[TurnerFam]

post 1, 2, 4, and 5 read as 'negative' to me... right off the bat. And, it seems that 'main street' is making a come back - such as the brand new ACE hardware stores, after many folks 'assumed' that HD and LOWES would simply drive them all out of business. Bunk.

Business has always, and WILL always, change, and come-and-go in different ways. Think of that great METROPOLIS, and for many years, MONOPLOY: SEARS.
Where is it at now?
In business, there will always be someone in competition lurking just around the corner, or just behind you - that's the nature of business, period. No one is going to just sit back and let Amazon 'control' the retail world... just give it a few years and we'll be talking about them in the same sentence with Sears.

[Chance]

Originally Posted by 16ACE27

You didn't read the OP?

I did, and honestly don’t see that as berating Thor (or Airxcel) in any way. And I certainly don’t see why it would make anyone upset at all. It was just a statement that may or may have not had additional meaning. It’s too minor for me to worry about and definitely to get upset over.

[Chance]

Originally Posted by TurnerFam

post 1, 2, 4, and 5 read as 'negative' to me... right off the bat. .....cut.....

Since you mention my post (copy below), why is having questions regarding an acquisition none of us have much information about negative? I do have a lot of questions why it was beneficial (the real answer) but since I don’t invest in Thor directly, I’m not going to get upset over it or over anyone’s comments.

Originally Posted by Chance

There are so many issues with that purchase that I wonder how it will turn out.

[GTM41261]

Strong business decision. Thor could possibly use all of Airxcel's production. This is is nothing new with Manufactures expanding their holding's to help promote the products they sell to both retail and OEM. Just look at Brunswick Marine and yet they still sell to OEM's

[atreis]

Originally Posted by Chance

Maybe worse.

When companies buy air conditioners or whatever from two or three suppliers, they have some backup in case of catastrophic interruptions due to a plant fire, flooding, labor issue, or whatever. Granted, sometimes companies put all their eggs in one basket to save incrementally on costs, which gives them a competitive advantage, but it is a risk they are taking.

I personally don’t see an RV company being able to manufacture air conditioners better than air conditioning “experts”. ...

Reality: Nearly all businesses are run by people that are not "experts" in terms of the products being produced by the business. They're experts at "running a business." Sometimes that's a bad thing too for different reasons ("extracting value for shareholders" without investing in future product development), but that really hasn't got much to do with whether or not they're an expert in the product.

IMO, how well this purchase works will depend on whether or not Thor allows AirXCel to operate as an independent business unit for the most part. Other Thor-owned units would get preferential sales treatment, and would be able to provide input on new product development direction, but otherwise it should continue to operate independently, still be allowed to sell to competing RV companies, set its own pricing structure based on the market they operate in, etc...

If they do that, it could work out well. If not, well... Maybe not. Only time will tell.

[txc2936@yahoo.com]

If this brings better supply chain, quality up in the thor products. Bring it on. Remember what honda did to the us market. Before the accord, we had junk forD escorts, pinto.

Honda came along with the accord, in the 80's, made the automobile a sewing machine it is today... When is the last time you opened the hood of your lexus, honda?

Or changed the spark plugs, gapped the points. Change spark plugs... ??

I think the same might be for rv's, bring on nice dependable, rv......

[DogLovers]

Rest assured everyone. Stuff on your RV will still break, short out, crack, leak, not work and fall off. There will be no interruption with this Thor purchase.

[EA37TS]

Originally Posted by txc2936@yahoo.com

If this brings better supply chain, quality up in the thor products. Bring it on. Remember what honda did to the us market. Before the accord, we had junk forD escorts, pinto.

Honda came along with the accord, in the 80's, made the automobile a sewing machine it is today... When is the last time you opened the hood of your lexus, honda?

Or changed the spark plugs, gapped the points. Change spark plugs... ??

I think the same might be for rv's, bring on nice dependable, rv......

Honda came along in the late 50’s and early 60’s with the N600 and then in the 70’s with the POS Civic. I was an apprentice at one of the first US dealers to sell them. You could do 2k worth of damage by pressing in on the fender with your thumb. Couldn’t keep parking lights on them because the looked like fog lights and were prone to theft. The Accord hit the US in 76.

The Pinto was introduced in 1970 to complete with the Toyota Corolla and the Datsun 510.

[Chance]

Originally Posted by atreis

.....cut.....

IMO, how well this purchase works will depend on whether or not Thor allows AirXCel to operate as an independent business unit for the most part. Other Thor-owned units would get preferential sales treatment, and would be able to provide input on new product development direction, but otherwise it should continue to operate independently, still be allowed to sell to competing RV companies, set its own pricing structure based on the market they operate in, etc...

If they do that, it could work out well. If not, well... Maybe not. Only time will tell.

Even if Airxcel is allowed to operate as an “independent” business by Thor, there still remains the question of whether competing RV manufacturers will accept them as truly independent. If Airxcel is to strengthen Thor’s supply chain by providing preferential priority, doesn’t that come at the other RV manufacturers’ expense? I don’t see how it can be both ways simultaneously. And why would Winnebago, Coachmen, etc. want to enter into an agreement with Airxcel/Thor when they know they will take a back seat to Thor?

The company I worked for most of my career would not do business with a wholly-owned subsidiary of a major competitor. I generally also try to avoid conflicts of interests when possible in my personal decisions, and expect non-Thor RV manufacturers will treat Airxcel differently going forward. Just a guess though.

[mpinva]

Thor provides value, increases market share, increases profit. Shareholder value. Name of the game.

[Chateau_Nomad]

Originally Posted by EA37TS

Honda came along in the late 50’s and early 60’s with the N600 and then in the 70’s with the POS Civic. I was an apprentice at one of the first US dealers to sell them. You could do 2k worth of damage by pressing in on the fender with your thumb. Couldn’t keep parking lights on them because the looked like fog lights and were prone to theft. The Accord hit the US in 76.

The Pinto was introduced in 1970 to complete with the Toyota Corolla and the Datsun 510.

I think Ford's design engineers and bean counters were heavily addicted to psychedelic drugs then... WHAT were they thinking??

The 510 was built like a tank... they're still used in competitive rally contests today. The Pinto... 🔥

[lwmcguire]

Originally Posted by Chance

My guess is lack of demand until recently because it was much easier to add a second A/C unit and or run a generator when needed. Most RVers don’t need high efficiency air conditioning because they don’t camp that many hours a year (for energy costs to be a major factor), and when they do, it’s often at a campground with hookups where power isn’t an issue.



In my opinion the interest in DC and much higher efficiency air conditioners started when needing to power A/C from batteries. Commercial trucks were some of the first due to no idling laws, and efficient A/C reduces required battery capacity and therefore weight. It also explains the small size of these air conditioners meant to cool a truck’s cab at night. Commercial fleets can also pay more for high quality equipment meant to operate a lot more hours than the average RV.



The next step was for a few DIY van builders to add these small and efficient DC air conditioners (mostly from Europe as far as I know) to run off lithium batteries. Class B manufacturer’s then followed. And Dave is right that cost is expensive, unless purchasing cheap stuff that is now starting to become more common.



Mini-split technology should be applied to RV air conditioners as soon as possible in my opinion, but we have to keep in mind that what makes them efficient is largely their size. No one wants a huge A/C on their RV roof, so they will have to repackage somehow. And for most RVs that are only used occasionally, it’s difficult to justify the added A/C cost or size in my opinion.



RVers wanting to boondock without generator power, yet have A/C at least through night, will create enough demand for newer efficient A/Cs. It’s already happening.

Interesting