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Old 09-15-2020, 04:58 PM   #1
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Brand: Thor Motor Coach
State: Florida
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THOR #20537
My Coach is a Lemon. What's next?

I bought a brand new Thor motorcoach a little less than a year ago. We have had multiple warranty related issues, and the coach has been in the shop for a huge portion of the time we have owned it. We are using a second repair shop after the first one proved to be incompetent. Now the second shop is saying the majority of the repairs need to be done at the factory. We do have an appointment at the Thor factory coming up soon; however, we are a bit upset with the expense that this trip will incur for us. Gas to get the coach there, hotel, airline tickets, etc. Management at the Thor factory has said that they won't be helping us with the expense. I feel that we are paying for a brand new coach already, and that we have made every effort to have this fixed closer to home. We shouldn't have to pay anymore money to get warranty work done. I feel like it's time for us to consult with an attorney. Does anyone have any experience with this process, it any recommendations for a good attorney?
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Old 09-15-2020, 05:05 PM   #2
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State: Arizona
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THOR #13932
Being uneducated about pre delivery inspections is the number one cause of misdirected comments about rv manufacturers.
Number two is probably the entitlement attitude taken at a repair facility which in turn gets you poor service because no one wants you on their lot.

I don't know if the top two reasons are your reasons, but they are THE most oft of reasons to be in your predicament.

If you have done any diligence by reading posts on this forum before you posted, you'd know to list the problems you're having so we can help solve some of them.

One new poster has waited two months to HAVE A SCREW TIGHTENED. (their windshield shade has come loose)
They say the rv is unusable for the last two months and it is ruining their life.
DON'T BE THEM.

It's an rv.
Make a nice trip out of the factory appointment, go to the rv museum, relish Indiana cuisine, make new friends while in the area, attend a church or an elks club while there,
If you didn't buy it to take trips, then why? Let's be a little impromptu and see if it creates some happy.


List what's wrong with the rv and see if we can have YOU fixing it for $10 bucks and 10 minutes.

We'll do our best to make you a knowledgeable and happy owner.

Or sell it.
It'll never be worth more than it is worth today.
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Old 09-15-2020, 05:25 PM   #3
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First Welcome to the Forum; although I wish that your first post didn't have to be written about problems.

The Thor repair facility will be able to repair you RV to better than new condition! (Especially when you figure in what that condition was! )
Give them a chance to make things right: it will prove to be worth it!
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Old 09-15-2020, 06:03 PM   #4
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THOR #20537
Quote:
Originally Posted by ducksface View Post
Being uneducated about pre delivery inspections is the number one cause of misdirected comments about rv manufacturers.
Number two is probably the entitlement attitude taken at a repair facility which in turn gets you poor service because no one wants you on their lot.

I don't know if the top two reasons are your reasons, but they are THE most oft of reasons to be in your predicament.

If you have done any diligence by reading posts on this forum before you posted, you'd know to list the problems you're having so we can help solve some of them.

One new poster has waited two months to HAVE A SCREW TIGHTENED. (their windshield shade has come loose)
They say the rv is unusable for the last two months and it is ruining their life.
DON'T BE THEM.

It's an rv.
Make a nice trip out of the factory appointment, go to the rv museum, relish Indiana cuisine, make new friends while in the area, attend a church or an elks club while there,
If you didn't buy it to take trips, then why? Let's be a little impromptu and see if it creates some happy.


List what's wrong with the rv and see if we can have YOU fixing it for $10 bucks and 10 minutes.

We'll do our best to make you a knowledgeable and happy owner.

Or sell it.
It'll never be worth more than it is worth today.
I understand that RV s have issues. This is not our first rv. I have lurked on the forums for awhile. My husband is very handy and has corrected many issues at home since it was easier than taking it in for service.

We have never had an entitlement attitude at the dealership. However I do expect the repairs to be fixed correctly. This has not been our experience. Poor quality repairs being covered up, combined with slow parts delivery from the manufacturer has made for an abysmal year of ownership. The parts are usually delivered damaged and the dealer installs anyway hoping we won't notice. We inspect the repairs carefully and catch the poor work.

We have done our research. My husband has all the available schematics from the manufacturer. He has read the manuals. We do roof inspections every 3 months because we are aware of the possible issues that can creep up. We are involved owners and are not the ones that sit back and complain about a loose screw saying our rig is unusable.

The problems we are having issues with are not beyond my husband's skill set, but we shouldn't have to be fixing dealership damage from poor repairs on our own dime on a coach that is less than one year old.

Problems range from a shower that was delivered with no floor pan support whatsoever, to multiple interior walls coming loose, causing the bathroom door not to line up with the latch. When the dealer tried to fix the shower, they caused more damage than fixed. The fridge cooling unit got fried from a simple cabinet repair. The previous dealer dumped wood debris from a cabinet repair above the fridge down into the fridge chimney burner. My husband cleaned it out, but the cooling died. So our last trip was with a half dead fridge and a jacked up shower/bathroom. We still had a great trip. It just would have been nice to have the features we paid for operational.

Our total number of issues is up to 28 right now I believe. I wish the fixes were $10 and 10 minutes.

My husband was cleaning the roof last month and the roof plywood started cracking. He is not fat either. He always thought it felt spongy compared to other RVs. The dealer says it's normal. The roof should at least support a 220 lb grown man without issues.


We are at almost 5 months of down time at the dealerships. The coach doesn't sit waiting for parts either. We make our appointment, they diagnose it, we pick it up and bring it back for the work when the parts are in. But the dealers just sit on the coach without doing the work, even though the parts are there. It takes a phone call from begging for them to please do the work. This last round, one job out of 15 was completed in 3.5 weeks. Most of the work was fixing previous minor errors caused by dealers. I wanted to give them a chance to make good on their promise to fix things. They just aren't doing that.

We have been able to travel almost 6000 miles in the last year. We love this coach when it works and plan on keeping it for lots of travel. We don't want to sell it. We just want the dealerships and the manufacturer to stand behind their work and do the repairs right the first time. We have been very patient and have done our due diligence.

I have read in other threads that there is an attorney based in louisiana that has other members have used before. Does anyone know their name by chance.

Thank you.
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Old 09-15-2020, 06:08 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Bob Denman View Post
First Welcome to the Forum; although I wish that your first post didn't have to be written about problems.

The Thor repair facility will be able to repair you RV to better than new condition! (Especially when you figure in what that condition was! )
Give them a chance to make things right: it will prove to be worth it!

My husband is active on here, although mostly in the maintenance and modifications sub forums. He has talked about all the good suspension mod advice that he got from the forum. He did 4 or 5 mods himself in the driveway to make our coach drive better. It made a huge difference.
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Old 09-15-2020, 06:20 PM   #6
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State: Arizona
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That was an excellent answer.
Thank you.

I have told this story often here, but here goes again.

Our now closed cw was supposedly the worst rated in the country.

When we took our coach in for its only real problem, a wire too short would blow the pedastal power when the slide went out its last half an inch.
Of course there was the normal silliness like those Danmable screen plastic holder onners being broken and we lost a fender flare on that rotten section of i15 south of slc(we didn't ask them to fix it, they just did).

I showed up with 20 Tacos. Those bulk packs at deltaco or whoever does that.

I handed them to the service writer and said.
'I'm not your normal Thor crybaby. These aren't given to you because I'm going to be a pain in the ass, they're given to you because of the whining you've put up with before us'

Everyone laughed, the crew came out and snatched Tacos and nodded and smiled while we're telling of the odd problem with the slide.
We were fixed and out of there the next day if we wanted but they told us they noticed the flare, overnight ordered it and wanted two more days.

We picked it up with five $6ish pizzas in hand.

We went in a month later to get an inverter and AGS and controllers installed.
We were met in the parking lot with handshakes and smiles(our 24.1 is slightly distinctive and they saw us pull in...).When we checked on the 3 day install, there were three guys working on it at once.
(when we flew a LOT I would hand a bag of nice airport bought candy to the greeter at the door and say. 'I'm a good passenger. This is incase the goof behind me isnt' laughs, smiles, free drinks, upgrade of a seat was available)
You decide if this is slight bribery or good business practice.

I'm sure from your reasonable and well said response and your rv history that you are indeed approaching the service department with respect.

Sometimes respect isn't enough to get the job done by some beleagured service writer and then to get the shop to ignore politics and get it all done.

Some of us here, at what I'd like to think is my coaching, see an entry level rv as a kit.
They lend you a TV until you replace it, at your whim, with the $4,000 TV you wanted.
They lend you a $65 microwave until you decide it inadequate and buy the Ge profile advantium. The good news is they lended you a microwave, the other good news is thor didn't force a $2,100 microwave down the throat of those who didn't need/want one.

You have a good attitude and experience.
Give us ONE shot at your list, you provide pics, we'll provide expertise.
An attorney is going to be a Miserable path.
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Old 09-15-2020, 06:37 PM   #7
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State: New York
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Ducky,
If you ever need insurance: I like bacon jerky!
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Old 09-15-2020, 07:48 PM   #8
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I can understand the OP's angst and I can empathize with her.

Look.... I know you catch more flies with honey and I try to take that approach. Heck....I have written letters of praise to Service Managers about people on their staff who provided me with great customer service.... and that was after the dealership botch one of the items they were supposed to fix back in June and I had to have Thor send me the part so I could fix it right myself.

Whether you spend $75,000, $150,000 or $300,000 for a coach it is not unreasonable to expect the coach to be mostly seaworthy. Sure.... a new car can have an issue or two and a motorhome being even more complex can have more than a few.... and that can be acceptable.

What's not acceptable is not having access to a significant new investment because it has to sit at the dealer for weeks or months to become seaworthy. Now whether that is because of an incompetent dealer, a poor build or a little of both it doesn't matter. You paid money for something with the expectation that you will get to use it more than it is in for repairs.

I also have an appointment in Wakarusa next month to address a structural issues that even the best PDI or most experienced RV technician would have ever caught. It happens....

My current coach is not my first Thor either. I have had my current coach into the dealer once and Wakarusa once to cover a long list of warranty items that range from minor to major.

I have also fixed or improved more than two dozens items myself that didn't show up on the PDI. Thor kindly sent me the parts since I am under warranty so I could do the repairs myself. This is one reason I have stuck with Thor.... I have experienced very good customer service from them.... better than any individual dealer.

Now all that being said.... I'm not pleased about paying a lot of money and spending a lot of time and effort dealing with issues. Some of them I can't blame Thor about but there are others I can.

Knowing the production quality challenges most of the industry has in common we are doing our best to have a good attitude through it all and enjoy our coach, which we have.

I can completely understand the OP's frustrations and expectations as well as many others who have posted similar experiences on this forum with new coaches. It is not right that it has to be this way.... but it is what it is. You have to expect it, accept it and make the best of it and keep moving forward and enjoying the experiences that come with RV'ing.

My advice to the OP is this...... If you like your coach (less the issues) and you like the lifestyle, give the Thor Service Center in Wakarusa a chance to make it right. Treat them with respect and try to take the emotion out of your discussions with them. Be polite and ask them for their help because you heard they are the best in the industry.

Document everything that needs addressed in detail and keep copies for you and Thor Service Team in Wakarusa. When you get there go over each item with them and explain your problem and concern. Take your time and make sure you cover everything. When they are done pull out your list and go over it with them again to make sure everything was addressed. In the end I think you will be pleased with their work and their customer service. They often go above and beyond.

But make no mistake..... other issues will likely pop up over time and after warranty. You just have to have the right attitude about it and knock them off one at a time and keep on RV'ing.
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Old 09-15-2020, 08:07 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RN44 View Post
I bought a brand new Thor motorcoach a little less than a year ago. We have had multiple warranty related issues, and the coach has been in the shop for a huge portion of the time we have owned it. We are using a second repair shop after the first one proved to be incompetent. Now the second shop is saying the majority of the repairs need to be done at the factory. We do have an appointment at the Thor factory coming up soon; however, we are a bit upset with the expense that this trip will incur for us. Gas to get the coach there, hotel, airline tickets, etc. Management at the Thor factory has said that they won't be helping us with the expense. I feel that we are paying for a brand new coach already, and that we have made every effort to have this fixed closer to home. We shouldn't have to pay anymore money to get warranty work done. I feel like it's time for us to consult with an attorney. Does anyone have any experience with this process, it any recommendations for a good attorney?
Well the good news is most attorneys don't charge a consultation fee.
The bad news is the fees to take your case will far outweigh your expense to get the RV to Wakarusa.
The worst bad news is, if you take the legal route it will take years to be resolved.

The Thor factory repair has a great reputation. Unless they have to rebuild/paint your coach it shouldn't take them more than a day or two to get it back in shape, so you probably don't need airline tickets, just a motel room and rental car.

So choose your battles and make your decision:
Do you want your RV fixed so you can enjoy it despite the previous frustrations?
Or do you want to stay frustrated for another couple of years and deal with the legal battle.
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Old 09-15-2020, 08:07 PM   #10
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Model: Hurricane 31S
State: Texas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RN44 View Post
I bought a brand new Thor motorcoach a little less than a year ago. We have had multiple warranty related issues, and the coach has been in the shop for a huge portion of the time we have owned it. We are using a second repair shop after the first one proved to be incompetent. Now the second shop is saying the majority of the repairs need to be done at the factory. We do have an appointment at the Thor factory coming up soon; however, we are a bit upset with the expense that this trip will incur for us. Gas to get the coach there, hotel, airline tickets, etc. Management at the Thor factory has said that they won't be helping us with the expense. I feel that we are paying for a brand new coach already, and that we have made every effort to have this fixed closer to home. We shouldn't have to pay anymore money to get warranty work done. I feel like it's time for us to consult with an attorney. Does anyone have any experience with this process, it any recommendations for a good attorney?
If you do go, you might spend time looking around for a better coach. There are nine factories within 70 miles including Newmar, Jayco, Entegra, Forest River, Dynamax and Coachmen to mention a few.
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Old 09-15-2020, 08:16 PM   #11
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The worst bad news is, if you take the legal route it will take years to be resolved.

I would normally agree with you but there was a post within the last year with a similar tone. The guy did contact an Attorney that specialized in Lemon Laws (even though there isn't one for RV's in most states). Within a couple months the dealer ended up buying back the coach.

Don't know what he paid in legals fees.... I'm sure it wasn't cheap.... but I was shocked at how quickly he obtained a resolution. The Attorney must have been pretty darn good.
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Old 09-15-2020, 08:24 PM   #12
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Newell and Newmar are the interior and options we're striving for in our little 24.1 kit.
Op should take a look at them with a PDI checklist in hand.

Also:
We read the resolution about the lawyer, etc, but did we ever find out if his lemon thing was really a trade in or if he sold it back to the dealer?

I'm not casting aspersions or stones, but someone confused and wordwrapped by an attorney might think selling the coach back to the dealer at a $40k loss was winning a lemon suit.
I say this because of my history in the car business. Dealers aren't involved in lemon laws. Manufacturers are.
A dealer just checks the vehicle on to the lot and stores it until the manufacturer can make plans and arrangements.
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Old 09-15-2020, 08:32 PM   #13
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I would normally agree with you but there was a post within the last year with a similar tone. The guy did contact an Attorney that specialized in Lemon Laws (even though there isn't one for RV's in most states). Within a couple months the dealer ended up buying back the coach.

Don't know what he paid in legals fees.... I'm sure it wasn't cheap.... but I was shocked at how quickly he obtained a resolution. The Attorney must have been pretty darn good.
I don't recall that case.

The case I do recall from last year was the win based on the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act - but it did take several years and multiple appeals (2013 - 2019).

There was also the revocation of acceptance case, but that took several years as well.
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Old 09-15-2020, 08:36 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by 16ACE27 View Post
I don't recall that case.

The case I do recall from last year was the win based on the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act - but it did take several years and multiple appeals (2013 - 2019).

There was also the revocation of acceptance case, but that took several years as well.

I don't have time to search for it now..... but I am pretty sure it was on this Forum and not another one.

The guy started off with the same theme.... anyone know how to start the Lemon Law process on a coach. Everyone pretty much told him it was a waste of time... and money. He said he was going to pursue it anyway.

I then remember him posting a couple months later he got it resolved and I was pretty sure it was a dealer buy-back.

If I get a chance later tonight I will see if I can find if it was here or another Forum.

I personally still advise against it and recommend the Wakarusa route in this case.
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Old 09-15-2020, 09:07 PM   #15
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The buyback guy, he's the same guy, if I'm remembering right, who touted a one off tire test mule, never seen the road, hacked together unfinished 427 60's mustang(rumored to have existed) as the finest car ever built.
I think his name had 427 in it.
Or I'm horribly wrong.

I think you can look for a thread title with duck or ducks or ducksface in it.
He started a thread which backfired badly.....
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Old 09-15-2020, 10:29 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by ducksface View Post
I think you can look for a thread title with duck or ducks or ducksface in it.
He started a thread which backfired badly.....
As is often the case, yes?
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Old 09-15-2020, 11:11 PM   #17
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The whole PDI angle and the new RV owner is a line of crap that folks on this forum keep spouting. Yes, buyer beware and a little pre-delivery inspection is a good idea, but the fact is the RV industry sells a product. By law, products sold in this country should be safe and usable as delivered. Too many RVs are not safe or usable on the day they are sold. The government knows this but refuses to act because RVs are 'luxury' products sold to people of means. The government does not care about people of means because they have means. If these same unsafe, un-usable products were sold to the poor, the government would step in and ensure they were fit for use.
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Old 09-15-2020, 11:41 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Lt Keefer View Post
The whole PDI angle and the new RV owner is a line of crap that folks on this forum keep spouting. Yes, buyer beware and a little pre-delivery inspection is a good idea, but the fact is the RV industry sells a product. By law, products sold in this country should be safe and usable as delivered. Too many RVs are not safe or usable on the day they are sold. The government knows this but refuses to act because RVs are 'luxury' products sold to people of means. The government does not care about people of means because they have means. If these same unsafe, un-usable products were sold to the poor, the government would step in and ensure they were fit for use.
I can sell you a 24.1 with a 7 year warranty and free fuel for that 7 years.
You won't step up.
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Old 09-16-2020, 12:00 AM   #19
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Those who bought used instead of new got nothing. No warranty, no promises.

Those who bought new asked for a discount.
Unless you all paid retail you all have no need to complain. You all took the shoddy work as a discount of cash. Deep down you all know it's true.
You paid less, you got less.
You all could have paid more, let's say 10 hours of labor more, and had it gone over top to bottom end to end and had it all fixed before you even picked it up.
Maybe you all didn't have the extra $1,280 for 10 hours labor.
Maybe you all didn't think of such a thing.
You all could even take it in after purchase, one day to thirty years later, and buy those same 10 hours.
You all could do it now. But I think you'd rather hang onto that sale price like a badge of honor.

It's pretty simple.
At full retail I'm pretty sure it'd be hard to get off the lot without everything being perfect.

The lack of personal responsibility, the gullibility, the lesson unlearned from every movie, every book, every story in the history of the world about buying something from a car salesman.
Frightening to stomach wrenching.
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Old 09-16-2020, 12:50 AM   #20
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Model: Hurricane 31S
State: Texas
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Originally Posted by Lt Keefer View Post
The whole PDI angle and the new RV owner is a line of crap that folks on this forum keep spouting. Yes, buyer beware and a little pre-delivery inspection is a good idea, but the fact is the RV industry sells a product. By law, products sold in this country should be safe and usable as delivered. Too many RVs are not safe or usable on the day they are sold. The government knows this but refuses to act because RVs are 'luxury' products sold to people of means. The government does not care about people of means because they have means. If these same unsafe, un-usable products were sold to the poor, the government would step in and ensure they were fit for use.

Thor plant 750 produces about 2,500 entry level class A coaches a year. Some are not up to standard and we all know that to be true. Thor MC give you to option to have a dealer repair the coach, take to an independent RV repair place and they will reimburse you or you can bring it to Wakarusa. If the dealer does not have the expertise to repair the coach, they will fly in a repair team, but the dealer has to request help. I never bought a house without having a certified bonded inspection even if the cost $1,500 in 1974. I never bought a car without researching the price to repair common parts and the dealer's repair capability for a wrecked car.

The closest Thor MC dealer to me that would let me test drive the coach and camp in it for at least 48 hours on his lot was 650 miles away, but I read about Thor MC's lack of quality and I wanted the ability to walk away from the deal. As it turned out, I bought a coach model that had been in production for 4 years and it was almost perfect (2 warranty items fixed by a JayCo dealer while I waited).

My coach has been damaged twice. Both time it was repaired by independent RV repair places. Thor MC supplied all the factory original parts with in 7 days of Iron Horse RV's request. The bill $22,300 repair entire left side and two slides was payed by The Harford. I was out the $1,000 deductible, but it was refunded 14 months later when The Hartford collected from the other party's insurance company. It took Iron Horse RV 20 days including the new paint to fix the coach to my satisfaction. I would not hesitate to buy a new Thor MC, but I do believe you must weed out the bad coaches before you buy.

On irv2 thee the story of a 2019 London Air that has spent 5 months at NIRV and the 2 months at the Nappanee factory (Camp Newmar) and still needs more repair. There is even a website devoted to Newmar problems, so agree it is an industry problem. There are no advocates for the RV buyer, so let be buyer beware of shoddy construction and avoid it. My guess is about 1 coach in 50 will need a major repair. Fortunately mine wasn't the one.
Rant over!
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