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Old 11-28-2018, 01:00 AM   #1
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THOR #1020
Ignition Lock Out gone wonky

Ran into a problem I cannot seem to resolve and need help if available.

On our 2015 Thor Challenger 37TB suddenly and without fanfare slides, overhead bunk and awnings stop working. Initially thought it was Rapid Camp but after extensive troubleshooting worked the problem forward to the front interior electrical buss. Ignition/Accessories Relay 2, 3, 4 seem to be where the problem gets first seen. If Relay 2 is removed, the slides operate. If Relay 2 is replaced, slides operate. Once the ignition switch is turned on and then off, slides do not operate. Pull Relay 2 and replace, slides again operate. Turn the ignition switch back on and then off, slides don't operate. I am attaching the wiring diagram. The common feed to each of these relays is "Ford Ignition Input".

Also, steps fail to operate correctly. With ignition switch in off position, step switch on and open the door - steps deploy. With the ignition in off position, step switch on and close the door - steps retract. Again sounds like the ignition switch lockout.

I am attaching a copy of the wiring diagram. Anyone with experience with this issue or anyone with advise for resolving, please comment. Gonna get old fooling with these relays.

PS: Andrea Hans (Thor CSR) spent the better part of 90 minutes helping me. Thank you.
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Old 11-28-2018, 02:47 AM   #2
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THOR #9660
Probably a stupid suggestion, but what about replacing relay #2 and see if that solves the issue? Also, I thought that's the way steps worked. I'm on our 3rd class A and that is what has always happened when the step switch was on. With it off, they remain out until the ignition switch is turned on.
Mike
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Old 11-28-2018, 03:00 AM   #3
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THOR #2631
So under normal conditions it looks like all four lockout relays should operate when the ignition is enabled, which then disconnects the respective loads for all four relays from the +12 VDC of the chassis battery.
Is relay #2 the only one with an issue? If yes does anything change if you remove relay 2 and replace it with a matching relay from another circuit ( I am assuming these relays are all the same) ?


The strange thing in your comments is when you pull out relay #2 and the loads for that relay still operate off the chassis battery. I would think that removing any of the four relays would stop the respective loads from functioning. Maybe a short cct from A4 to C5 on relay #2 base?
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Old 11-28-2018, 03:53 AM   #4
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THOR #2631
Correction to my previous comment......relay 1 is not operated by the ignition but is controlled by the fog light switch. The relay looks the same as 2, 3, and 4 though.
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Old 11-28-2018, 11:12 AM   #5
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THOR #1150
If the relays are the same exact unit I would:
  • Mark them with a sharpie (their original positions)
  • Exchange a couple to see what happens
If the behavior changes you know you have a bad relay with one of the two you exchanged. If you do another exchange you should be able to narrow down which one is iffy.
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Old 11-28-2018, 12:18 PM   #6
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THOR #1020
Coach is going into storage for 3 weeks and then we are going to living in again for 3 months. I agree with the idea of switching out the relays. To be sure, I am going to order 4 new ones while we are in our brick and mortar. Off Amazon they are less than $10 each.

Appreciate the inputs. If anyone else has direct experience with the "ignition lockout", I'd appreciate any advise.

I also contacted Andrea and asked for further info about the Ford Ignition Input 1A.


I'll check in once a day with follow up info.

Again, thanks for taking the time to respond.
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Old 11-29-2018, 12:32 AM   #7
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THOR #1020
Follow up

Well - a quick update. Before we left our site this morning, I told the DW that by the time we got to our new site the problem would be gone. Sure enough, after driving for about 110 miles today - everything worked except the steps. I put the coach into storage and will finish as we head south to Key West for the winter.

Looking at the wiring diagrams and following up again with Andrea, I believe the issue is either in the ignition switch or even in the step/step controller.

Next steps in December will be the investment in 4 new relays and try to isolate the issue. (4 each delivered $19.50)

In a past life, I did some electronic and computer "stuff". The bane of debugging was always the intermittent bugs. TOUGH to isolate.

Anyway thanks to all of you again. Also, for the uninitiated I will post picture of the Rapid Camp Relay and some wiring diagrams. Unfortunately this has not been my first go around with the Rapid Camp.

Again thanks for the inputs.

Rapid Camp Module is also known as LCI LINC MULTIFUNCTION BOARD -8 CHANNEL OUTPUT.
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Old 11-29-2018, 09:29 PM   #8
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THOR #1020
Some more follow up. Talked with CSR Andrea Hans who provided me some info to complete the diagnosis. I checked the voltage at both pin slot A4 and C4 with the switch off. I got 12V at A4 and 6V at C4. Voltage with the switch off should be 12V at A4 and 0V at C4. C4 is wired to the switch via Ford Ignition Input 1A. This doesn't answer where that voltage is actually coming from but sure has narrowed down the place to look. Could be as simple as a loose connection at the Ford Ignition Switch. Definitely easier to get at than the dog gone Rapid Camp Module!!

Just to be clear to any others researching this or similar issue. With any voltage coming in at the C4 pin the relay will close activating the Ignition Lockout.

Of course this is all from the what it is worth department.
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Old 11-30-2018, 02:37 PM   #9
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THOR #2631
Interesting problem. I see there is a lock out relay feeding the Rapid Camp module as well which has an ignition sense wire on pin 86 (coil wire) of the lock out relay. It would seem logical for Thor to use the same ignition sense contact point for both the Rapid Camp and the front end relays (perhaps). Does the Rapid Camp "ign" wire also measure 6 volts when ignition is off and key is out of the ignition? If not it would be interesting to know where the two ign wires source.....perhaps your Thor CSR could find that out for you. Worst case you could tap the working ign source off rapid camp and use it for your front end relays......unless Thor comes through with some more details for you.



What is also interesting is that with only 6 volts on the ign wire for the front lockout relays....the relays operate. You would think they should be 12 volt relays. Perhaps they are sensitive and pull enough current at half voltage to operate.
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Old 11-30-2018, 03:00 PM   #10
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THOR #1020
The rapid camp module in fact does use that same voltage. The 6 volts comes from the Ford ignition input without being plugged into the relay. That is why the relay was closing incorrectly when the switch was off.

The good news is I've run it into a corner for now. It must be in the ignition switch itself. However that seems to have cured itself during the drive on Wednesday. This all leads me to believe that there is a loose connection in the switch.
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Old 11-30-2018, 03:51 PM   #11
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THOR #2631
Sorry, I missed the Rapid Camp loads were also having issues too. It would be nice if someone on the forum with Ford F53 schematic access could float the ignition schematic and Thor could provide something about where they connect to that ignition point. Seems odd that it measures 6 volts when the fault is on. You would think a short at the ignition would be either solid ground or 12volts. A loose connection might do a voltage in between but a constant 6 volts? .......this seems like a resistance in series with the ign wire like a short to 12v with some relay coil (resistance) dropping the voltage. It will be interesting to see what you find out.
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Old 11-30-2018, 05:23 PM   #12
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THOR #1020
Javelin - the diagram I attached shows the connection via the relays in the Buss below the automotive fuse panel. I am trying to find the Ford ignition circuit.
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