2016 Axis 24.1 Impressions

[DocMike]

Oneil,

Since I replaced the Harris Batteries I have had no more problems...even with the original WFCO converter. It would appear to have been a "combo" problem that neither party would accept responsibility for.

Great to hear that the Transmission Cable position has been corrected!

Sounds like you have a real nice unit this time!

Doc

[Oneilkeys]

So far, so good. I am pretty happy.

[mcr1010]

Snip

Originally Posted by Oneilkeys

Thor did hear the complaints and did something to try and improve the noise levels. Unfortunately, it was very limited and helped only a little. We will see if the additional 15 sq ft of insulation (cost $50) lowers the noise and heat levels much further

A considerable amount of noise comes from the road surface.
It would be nice if Thor did some sound deadening in the road noise dept. i.e. cabin sides, floor etc.
Thanks for the detailed reports on the 2016.

[Larry]

Originally Posted by axis earl

Would it be possible to post some pictures of the Velcro hold downs for that fold down counter that bangs around?

Here's pictures some of Randy's (groswald) handiwork: (Works great with no counter banging noise and looks great also. If you PM him if interested, he will provide details I'm sure.)
groswald
Senior Member

Brand: Thor Motor Coach
State: Colorado
Posts: 216


I finally completed several mod’s just before our most recent trip to New Mexico.

The first, and most important was to get the coach aligned. It handled poorly on our first extended trip last year, and I was very concerned about talking it back on the interstate this year. The alignment found camber was fine, caster was toward the top of the range where we want it, but both wheels were toed out 0.1 degrees. That’s definitely a cause for poor handling!

Handling this trip was much improved – it now tracks straight and can be one-handed without fear. Strong crosswind gusts still need attention, but they aren't pants-changing experiences anymore. I actually enjoyed the driving part of this trip. I may still add a Saf-T-Plus, but it will be to provide additional help with the gusts and give a degree of peace-of-mind about a front-tire blowout.

On to the real mod’s:

I hated the countertop-extension banging back into the cabinet every time we slowed or stopped. I made this little device to hold the extension in the lowered position when not in use. A bit of scrap cherry, some time in the CNC router, and a bit-o-Velcro. Works a treat. No more crashing!





I'm limited to a max of six images per post, so I'll break this here and continue in additional replies.

Regards,

Randy

[Oneilkeys]

Originally Posted by mcr1010

Snip



A considerable amount of noise comes from the road surface.
It would be nice if Thor did some sound deadening in the road noise dept. i.e. cabin sides, floor etc.
Thanks for the detailed reports on the 2016.

You're right. After I finished putting in all the insulation in my Vegas, the majority of the road noise came from the tires and was very dependant on the road surface. I have the feeling that you have to move up a level or two in quality and cost before you get much insulation in the floor and walls.

[Chance]

Originally Posted by Oneilkeys

You're right. After I finished putting in all the insulation in my Vegas, the majority of the road noise came from the tires and was very dependant on the road surface. I have the feeling that you have to move up a level or two in quality and cost before you get much insulation in the floor and walls.

I hope this isn't changing subjects too much; but I think there is only so much you can do if the RV's body is welded or bolted directly to the chassis. I'll look closer under a unit next time I see one, but based on Thor Axis Video of how they are made, it looks like there may not be any (or at least sufficient) isolators between the chassis and upper structure. If so, that means some road vibration will transmit directly to the coach, causing a lot of the noise on rougher roads. Adding insulation in other areas will therefore have diminishing effect on noise.

[Oneilkeys]

Originally Posted by Chance

I hope this isn't changing subjects too much; but I think there is only so much you can do if the RV's body is welded or bolted directly to the chassis. I'll look closer under a unit next time I see one, but based on Thor Axis Video of how they are made, it looks like there may not be any (or at least sufficient) isolators between the chassis and upper structure. If so, that means some road vibration will transmit directly to the coach, causing a lot of the noise on rougher roads. Adding insulation in other areas will therefore have diminishing effect on noise.

Interesting... If isolators will improve the situation, maybe that is not an expensive fix if it is done in the factory during construction?? One thing I noticed in my trip last summer is that the surface of the road makes a big difference in the noise inside the coach. In Western Canada and Alaska, many of the roads are "chip sealed" or oiled and covered with gravel, making for a smooth road (little vibration) but lots of tire noise on the rough surface.

[Chance]

Originally Posted by Oneilkeys

Interesting... If isolators will improve the situation, maybe that is not an expensive fix if it is done in the factory during construction?? One thing I noticed in my trip last summer is that the surface of the road makes a big difference in the noise inside the coach. In Western Canada and Alaska, many of the roads are "chip sealed" or oiled and covered with gravel, making for a smooth road (little vibration) but lots of tire noise on the rough surface.

The E-Series, originally meant as a van, has body-on-frame construction. So on my Ford E-Series van the chassis is essentially just like that of an Axis, but the van's body is bolted to the chassis separated by isolators. By unbolting these isolators I could lift the entire body off the chassis/frame in one piece.

I can't be certain without first crawling under an Axis or Vegas, but on video it looks like MORryde bolts or welds the steel cross members directly to chassis. There does not appear to be isolators, nor do I think this type of construction would permit it. The motorhome's body would have to be much stronger and stiffer to stand alone as a separate unit like is the case with a van body.

And to your question, if they are not added from onset, there would be no practical way to retrofit them.

[mcr1010]

Originally Posted by Oneilkeys

You're right. After I finished putting in all the insulation in my Vegas, the majority of the road noise came from the tires and was very dependant on the road surface. I have the feeling that you have to move up a level or two in quality and cost before you get much insulation in the floor and walls.

That is what I noticed after insulating doghouse, ducts for windshield and as much of the firewall as possible. Road noise is the major roar now.

On my last coach, I covered the cabin floor area with some sound deadening strips under the carpet. It helped a bit, but could not put any numbers on it. If I can remove the carpet without getting into a large project, I may do the cabin floor in the Vegas and see if that helps. I would guess the side walls and fender wells would need to be covered also to realize a sizable noise reduction.
The item I used on my last coach was Peel & Seal Aluminum Roll Flashing which has a thick mastic self sticking back. It is an substitute for Dynamat which is kinda pricey and is used in the automotive world for sound deadening. It is for outside uses, but not sure how well it will holdup on the underside of body areas.

[Oneilkeys]

It would be interesting to see if insulation under the carpet and/or fender wells helped measurably. The carpet should have some effect on that already. I think I will live with what I have done so far for my trip this summer and see what happens.

[Mr Sunshine]

Originally Posted by Chance

I hope this isn't changing subjects too much; but I think there is only so much you can do if the RV's body is welded or bolted directly to the chassis. I'll look closer under a unit next time I see one, but based on Thor Axis Video of how they are made, it looks like there may not be any (or at least sufficient) isolators between the chassis and upper structure. If so, that means some road vibration will transmit directly to the coach, causing a lot of the noise on rougher roads. Adding insulation in other areas will therefore have diminishing effect on noise.

When we toured the assembly plant in Elkhart in June, our guide pointed to a thin strip of rubber over the frame, before the floor is installed. They were building 2016s, and I don't recall them saying when that bit of isolation was added. The guide said it was a big improvement.

[Oneilkeys]

Originally Posted by Mr Sunshine

When we toured the assembly plant in Elkhart in June, our guide pointed to a thin strip of rubber over the frame, before the floor is installed. They were building 2016s, and I don't recall them saying when that bit of isolation was added. The guide said it was a big improvement.

Interesting... Possibly that was some of the improvement we saw in our new Axis during our trip home.

[vkb]

" I installed a Blu Ray/DVD/USB player and it works well. I was even pretty happy with the TV sound and think I will hold off on purchasing a Blue Tooth transmitter to connect the TV to the audio system. "
Oneilkeys....I have not investigated this area of the Axis 24.1....are you saying that the top shelf is wired for the DVD/Blu Ray player? or a matter of convenience since it is so close to the TV over the door ?

[Oneilkeys]

Originally Posted by vkb

" I installed a Blu Ray/DVD/USB player and it works well. I was even pretty happy with the TV sound and think I will hold off on purchasing a Blue Tooth transmitter to connect the TV to the audio system. "
Oneilkeys....I have not investigated this area of the Axis 24.1....are you saying that the top shelf is wired for the DVD/Blu Ray player? or a matter of convenience since it is so close to the TV over the door ?

There is an HDMI cable in the top shelf above the sink that is connected to the TV over the door. That is also where the cable/antenna switch is located and there are three 120v receptacles - one that the TV is plugged into and two others for a DVD or computer, etc. If you take off the panel on the left hand wall of this shelf you will find the controller for the bunk in the front as well as the cables leading to the TV.

[Chance]

Originally Posted by Mr Sunshine

When we toured the assembly plant in Elkhart in June, our guide pointed to a thin strip of rubber over the frame, before the floor is installed. They were building 2016s, and I don't recall them saying when that bit of isolation was added. The guide said it was a big improvement.

Almost anything in that area should help some -- it's like placing a rubber mat or other material under carpet. It will help reduce vibration (and therefore noise) as well as heat transfer. However, if I understand your description correctly, the material may not isolate the wall frames from where they are attached to floor joist, so vibration may very well still get through to the walls, and ceiling as well since it's all connected. There is also the front cowl area. Is that isolated?

My earlier point is that when noise comes from many areas all around because it may be attached to chassis, fixating on one area to over-insulate will have diminishing return on lowering noise. Obviously we should work on loudest areas first, like engine cover which is reported to be a major contributor. Having said that, I expect that road noise coming from tires and passing through chassis and body structure will be difficult to reduce significantly.

[Arby]

Originally Posted by Oneilkeys

Thor really seems to have listened to many of our complaints. In addition to the obvious improvements of the new transmission, new bathroom doors and upgraded radio, to name a few, they also moved the oil fill cap to the front of the engine - where it is easily accessible -- and dropped the engine battery tray so that it looks like you can change the battery without cutting the coach apart. The use/store switch for the house batteries really seems to work! In my Vegas, I had to add an additional on/off switch to the coach batteries so they did not discharge. In the 2016 Axis, the radio shuts off completely and is disconnected when the use/store switch is in the "store" position. I have a permanent digital readout for my house batteries and they seem to be remaining fully charged. The "store" really seems to store!
The shower and shower curtain are a real improvement both in looks and usefulness.
In addition, the overall fit and finish is far superior to my 2014 Vegas. I had one of the early ones and it was horribly finished. I loved my Vegas and drove it all over the US, Alaska and Canada (I know Alaska is in the US for all my Alaskan friends), but I spend weeks after I purchased it wrapping electrical and water connections, tying wiring and water lines down, etc, etc.. I was one of Thor's biggest critics. I loved the coach and hated the sloppy workmanship and lack of quality control. I am happy to say that the 2016 Axis is completely different. Having fixed all those things the first time, I was not going to have to do it again. To my great surprise, I did not have to. It had already been done. The number of things I found wrong on the Axis was very small. Even after crawling over it for a week, I find little or nothing to complain about yet.

Could you supply a few pics of the battery tray. Maybe I can alter my 2015 so I can pull the battery from the front

[Oneilkeys]

We drove to Everglades National Park for the weekend to "shake down" our new Axis. Everything went very well. On the way there, my scan guage said that I got 12.0 mpg over about 50 miles at 55mph with the wind quartering behind us; on the way home, the scan guage said 10.8 mpg at 65 mph with a stiff wind from the side. I took some noise readings going home with an Apple app on my iPad and got readings of 68-70 db at 55 mph on a two lane good road. The app says that is "normal conversation" level and we could easily carry on a conversation without raising our voices. With the added insulation in the engine compartment, there is a very noticeable difference. It is significantly quieter than our 2014 Vegas.
While there were spaces with electric available at he campground, we decided to "dry camp" to test all the systems. Everything worked as advertised. The new shower is better than the old one and battery drain was about the same as the 2014 Vegas. The Clean Dump waste disposal system worked perfectly and the propane heater blew us out. (It only got down to about 50 degrees.)
The only glitch (there always has to be one) is the engine light came on close to home. The Ford book says that it probably has something to do with the exhaust system and that it may fix itself. The engine seems to be running fine, so hopefully it is just a sensor or some other minor item.

[Oneilkeys]

Originally Posted by Arby

Could you supply a few pics of the battery tray. Maybe I can alter my 2015 so I can pull the battery from the front

Sorry, I missed this post. Did someone send you some pics or would you still like some.

[bevedfelker]

Vkb -- I put a small DVD/Blu Ray player on the top shelf of the kitchen cabinet. There is a 110 VAC plug up there. I plugged the HDMI into the Blu Ray player.

Today when I was down at the storage yard I started up the generator and decided to test that Blu Ray (first time we tried it after installing it). Started the Blu ray. Took the TV remote and selected SOURCE and then selected HDMI-1. The movie played really well.

The TV above the door is one of the Seiki's that I can't get to scan encoded cable channels. I was going to replace this TV with an LG but the picture quality from the playing the Blu Ray was so good that I think I'll keep this Seiki and we'll sit on the couch to watch movies.

[Oneilkeys]

Originally Posted by bevedfelker

Vkb -- I put a small DVD/Blu Ray player on the top shelf of the kitchen cabinet. There is a 110 VAC plug up there. I plugged the HDMI into the Blu Ray player.

Today when I was down at the storage yard I started up the generator and decided to test that Blu Ray (first time we tried it after installing it). Started the Blu ray. Took the TV remote and selected SOURCE and then selected HDMI-1. The movie played really well.

The TV above the door is one of the Seiki's that I can't get to scan encoded cable channels. I was going to replace this TV with an LG but the picture quality from the playing the Blu Ray was so good that I think I'll keep this Seiki and we'll sit on the couch to watch movies.

I was impressed with the quality of the Seki's picture too. My Blu Ray also plays from a Thumb drive and the picture from that was also excellent.