Leveling question - setting manual level then auto leveling

[RACarvalho]

Originally Posted by Jusplainwacky

The question was if a person leveled their coach at a certain height, which would be the result of hydraulic pressure (not some height sensor which makes no sense especially if the ground was uneven), does the controller have a pressure sensor where it can level the coach to that same height.

No, it does not because, again, it is not measuring height nor pressure.
It is only measuring LEVEL and its routine focus on that.

For example, the concrete patio I have is level.
So when I turn on the leveling system is already showing level.
If I press auto level, it will:
1 - unlevel front to back using the front jacks
2 - then it will level front to back using the rear jacks (at this point the coach is already level)
3 - then it will unlevel side to side using the left jacks
4 - Then level again using the right jacks.
It does that to make sure it is level BUT this also make the coach sits higher for when I manually level, I stop (in fact the system stops) at step 2.
See, THE SYSTEM stops me at point 2 when I manually level, so it does so not because of height but because level...

All the above shows the system is not concerned with HEIGHT but with LEVEL.

[lwmcguir]

Originally Posted by Jusplainwacky

To obtain the angles, the coach has to know how high to raise each jack, so not sure I fully understand your logic.

You should buy a class A with air leveling. Then you could accomplish what you want with air pressure. To do the same with hydraulic you need several sensors and inputs and outputs along with a much more technical algorithm to factor in the hydraulic pressure versus lift. Doesn't exist on a motor home in the hydraulic form.

That technology is used in a simple form as hydraulic scales or indicators on cranes for boom loading.

There is no value to be gained in taking the load off your tires with the rams.

[Chateau_Nomad]

Just level your coach using a "leveling point" - whether that be the floor or countertop... whichever makes you happy and works for you. Either way, it will be close enough as to not affect the refrigerator or slide operation. As others with the auto leveling feature have stated, the system WILL NOT accomplish what you are trying to do... that's why most people are urging you to manually level.

The only way to get exactly what you want is to design and engineer your own hardware interface, and control it with custom written software. If you're into that, buy an Arduino mini and accelerometer chip - both are fairly cheap - and bang out a few lines of code. The sky's the limit - make it do whatever you want. At minimum you'll get some great insight how the auto leveling works with hydraulic jacks.

[Jusplainwacky]

Thanks everyone for letting me know that the hydraulic jack does not take in account hydraulic pressure when leveling the coach...that was my question.

I must have confused people in my inquiry if the Auto-Leveling controller took into account the hydraulic pressure in setting the height. Perhaps I could have rephrased it differently.

These last 3-posts just solidified the answer. I had to chuckle in buying an elaborate leveling system so that my pancake batter doesn't flow off the griddle.

I sure everyone levels their coach that works for them. As they say, "to each their own". I personally always use the Auto-Leveling controller and let it do the work. I have also found it to be very consistent. Now I can pour my batter and enjoy a round pancake and my sausages not rolling off.

[Beau388]

Originally Posted by Jusplainwacky

I think we all understand that level has nothing to do with height.

The question was if a person leveled their coach at a certain height, which would be the result of hydraulic pressure (not some height sensor which makes no sense especially if the ground was uneven), does the controller have a pressure sensor where it can level the coach to that same height.

In my system there are two pressure sensors. One in the pressure line valves that is rated at 300 lbs. That pressure is used in grounding the jacks. The other is in the return lines and is a 1500 psi pressure switch. This switch signals the pump that all jacks are up. If the pressure in the return lines drop below 1,200 psi the pump will come on and pressurize the return system even though the control panel is off.

My leveling controller works like this. Auto level uses the under coach modules (main and rear) to determine which of the four directions in most out of level. Those two jacks are grounded. Raise pressure is applied to those two jacks with both pressure valves open simultaneously. The controller goes to next most out of level direction and grounds that jack and levels in that direction. The coach jerks because when the second move is made one of the jacks is pressurized to the level pressure but the other only has grounding pressure. The pressure in both jacks must be equalized before lifting to avoid racking the coach's frame. Finally the last jack is grounded the and that side or end is leveled.
The controller rest of 10 seconds and then checks to see if all parameters match the preset values. The actual values are shown on the computer display. Should the coach still be out of level, the controller will try to correct, by either raising or lowering the side or end that is out of level. This usually is necessary the the controller only used three measurements to level a four side coach, so a forth adjustment is need to tweak the level.

[Jusplainwacky]

Originally Posted by Beau388

In my system there are two pressure sensors. One in the pressure line valves that is rated at 300 lbs. That pressure is used in grounding the jacks. The other is in the return lines and is a 1500 psi pressure switch. This switch signals the pump that all jacks are up. If the pressure in the return lines drop below 1,200 psi the pump will come on and pressurize the return system even though the control panel is off.

My leveling controller works like this. Auto level uses the under coach modules (main and rear) to determine which of the four directions in most out of level. Those two jacks are grounded. Raise pressure is applied to those two jacks with both pressure valves open simultaneously. The controller goes to next most out of level direction and grounds that jack and levels in that direction. The coach jerks because when the second move is made one of the jacks is pressurized to the level pressure but the other only has grounding pressure. The pressure in both jacks must be equalized before lifting to avoid racking the coach's frame. Finally the last jack is grounded the and that side or end is leveled.
The controller rest of 10 seconds and then checks to see if all parameters match the preset values. The actual values are shown on the computer display. Should the coach still be out of level, the controller will try to correct, by either raising or lowering the side or end that is out of level. This usually is necessary the the controller only used three measurements to level a four side coach, so a forth adjustment is need to tweak the level.

So, there are pressure sensors in the hydraulic pump which is what I initially was wondering...what I didn't know is if that pressure is monitored by the controller and when a person sets the level point, if the controller stored the pressure setting. From your explanation, what I understand is that that these sensors are set and once the pressure is achieved, it will register in the controller. There is no changing the setpoint.

[Beau388]

Originally Posted by Jusplainwacky

So, there are pressure sensors in the hydraulic pump which is what I initially was wondering...what I didn't know is if that pressure is monitored by the controller and when a person sets the level point, if the controller stored the pressure setting. From your explanation, what I understand is that that these sensors are set and once the pressure is achieved, it will register in the controller. There is no changing the setpoint.

True. I forgot about the 3,000 psi over pressure sensor. Some seem to have it some don't. Its purpose is to prevent bursting a hose during manual leveling the coach. All these are snap switches and are set at manufacturer. Supposedly the pump bypass is to protect the hoses so an electrical switch seems redundant to me.

[Jusplainwacky]

Originally Posted by Beau388

True. I forgot about the 3,000 psi over pressure sensor. Some seem to have it some don't. Its purpose is to prevent bursting a hose during manual leveling the coach. All these are snap switches and are set at manufacturer. Supposedly the pump bypass is to protect the hoses so an electrical switch seems redundant to me.

Thanks and everyone else for contributing to my POST and educating me on the features/mechanics of the hydraulic jacks. I now have enough information to go do some damage.

[16ACE27]

Originally Posted by Jusplainwacky

Thanks everyone for letting me know that the hydraulic jack does not take in account hydraulic pressure when leveling the coach...that was my question.

I must have confused people in my inquiry if the Auto-Leveling controller took into account the hydraulic pressure in setting the height. Perhaps I could have rephrased it differently.

These last 3-posts just solidified the answer. I had to chuckle in buying an elaborate leveling system so that my pancake batter doesn't flow off the griddle.

I sure everyone levels their coach that works for them. As they say, "to each their own". I personally always use the Auto-Leveling controller and let it do the work. I have also found it to be very consistent. Now I can pour my batter and enjoy a round pancake and my sausages not rolling off.

I told you that in post #2.

It also doesn't care about taking weight off tires.

[Jusplainwacky]

Originally Posted by 16ACE27

I told you that in post #2.

It also doesn't care about taking weight off tires.

In post #2, you said this...
Nope, sorry you didn't. The only thing the auto leveler cares about is putting the coach at the same angles it has stored as the zero leveling point. No force, no pressure, no height is taken into account.

Just for the record, I didn't say what is in italics above, you did.

Regardless, your answer is 100% accurate in how the Auto-Lever works, but that wasn't quite what I was asking.

Allow me to explain myself..

I had questioned, "I hope I have explained myself in a manner that can be understood", and you said, "Nope, sorry you didn't"!

So, naturally I didn't think you understood what I was asking, which wasn't how the Auto-Level controller worked, but rather how the reprogramming of it did.

Now had you responded to my question along the lines of..."If the coach has been Auto-Leveled, and you manually raise the coach 5", manually level it at that height, reprogram that as the new "setpoint", then retracted the jack and then pressed auto-level, it will auto level back to its original leveling height and not level 5" higher...that is providing it's on the same pad". I would have known that you understood my question.

Now that I understand how the reprogramming of the controller works, I can go back and look at your post and again confirm it's 100% accurate in how the controller works. Again, I just didn't know if it worked the same way if it was reprogrammed.

Like I said, perhaps I could have worded my question better.

[Jimbo56]

What an interesting thread about nothing relevant.

Level your coach howeverthehell you want to! Me, I just don’t want my bathroom door to swing weird. Or, the shower to not drain properly! Or, my beer to slide off the counter!

Maybe let’s ask if snap pads affect the ability to level the coach.

[Bob Nodine]

Pressure is not going to correlate to level. Even if you had a pressure sensor on each jack those pressures would vary from campsite to campsite.

[Jusplainwacky]

Originally Posted by Jimbo56

What an interesting thread about nothing relevant.

Level your coach howeverthehell you want to! Me, I just don’t want my bathroom door to swing weird. Or, the shower to not drain properly! Or, my beer to slide off the counter!

Maybe let’s ask if snap pads affect the ability to level the coach.

Yet here you are contributing nothing relevant to a POST you think is nothing relevant.

[RACarvalho]

Originally Posted by Jimbo56

Maybe let’s ask if snap pads affect the ability to level the coach.

No they don't.
Have being using them for more than a year now.

[Jusplainwacky]

Originally Posted by RACarvalho

No they don't.
Have being using them for more than a year now.

I would think that snap pads would have a tendency to collect water and potentially rust out the landing. Do they have a drain slot? Thoughts?

[RACarvalho]

I have not witness that and I don't remember if it has holes to drain the water but maybe I just don't camp too much while is raining ? ��

[Jusplainwacky]

Originally Posted by RACarvalho

I have not witness that and I don't remember if it has holes to drain the water but maybe I just don't camp too much while is raining ? ��

Obviously off the topic, but...

I have never thought about using them and did some research if they were worth the price or just hype. Here is what I discovered...and now to go look for some.
* Most have a hole in the center so they must drain.
* Reduce metal wear of the metal jacks stands
* Give an additional height to the jacks
* Help prevent the jacks sinking into asphalt when the pavement is really hot
* Provides a softer landing that can actually be felt inside of the coach
* Absorbs vibration
* When it's raining and muddy, you aren't trying to place landing pads under the jacks
* Prevent rust spots on concrete
* Some RV Parks require you use some kind of landing pad
* This one I found interesting...a lightning storm hit many RV's in a park and suffered damage, but the one that had pads didn't get hit. (No ground). Yet, planes get hit and they have no ground...so I question this.

About the only "CON" I found was this...which I also question..
Snap pads while convenient can add stress to the leveling system when they bite as they hit the ground. Pads are meant to slide and settle to take the stress off of the hwh system. When the snap pad bites and your piston/cylinder is damaged from the over stress, it will cost you more than a snap pad to fix it.

[RACarvalho]

Originally Posted by Jusplainwacky

Snap pads while convenient can add stress to the leveling system when they bite as they hit the ground.

What do you mean with "bite"?

[Jusplainwacky]

Originally Posted by RACarvalho

What do you mean with "bite"?

The word "bite" was what the person wrote. Just means "grab". They were referring that once the pad hits the ground, it will not move/slide and can put undue pressure on the jack itself an potentially cause damage.

They said that the pads (actually referring to no pads on the landing) are meant to slide and adjust, and if you put rubber snap pads on, they can't.

I think if anything, having the landing slide would put more stress on the jack system

Sounds like a bunch of rubbish to me.

[thisoldman]

Great explanation, Judge. In my case, once calibrated—something I do periodically, since it seems to drift over time—I generally rely on the auto level function. When on very uneven ground or when it just can't seem to figure out what level is and/or raises the coach too high, I revert to manual leveling.