Winnebago All Electric Motorhome concept reveal

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by lwmcguire

Hot male plug? No

I was not saying a hot male plug, but was talking about a male plug that is 30 amp that can plug into my generator. I already got the parts on order. Will start a new thread with what I am planning so maybe I can get some help on the wiring.

[lwmcguire]

All of my 7500 and down generators came with a cord

They are available

I have made a lot of 240v extensions but just bought any 30 amp

Key is getting the plug securely fastened to the SO cord taking pressoff the connectors

[Chance]

Originally Posted by JamieGeek

Well that won't fly ! LOL
125 mile range, 86kWh battery...

......cut.....

Since range is main issue with an electric RV, I tried putting energy consumption in perspective to see if expecting more is reasonable; or if this is as good as it will likely get for a while until newer batteries provide more specific energy.

Anyway, 86 kW for 125 miles is 690 Wh per mile. That’s almost three times higher than the Tesla 3’s 240 Wh per mile, one of lowest available. However, energy consumption that high for the Winnebago is not because of electrical inefficiency, but because a van that size and weight requires a lot more power than a small and aerodynamic sedan, right?

We know many Class B the size of the Winnebago built on extended Transit with DRW are getting about 14 MPG (more or less), so by comparison, the electrical needs is equal to a sedan getting 40 MPG on gas. And that’s about right; quite a few cars the size of Tesla 3 can do +/- 40 MPG highway. Just a reality check.

It appears 690 Wh per mile is very reasonable for an electric van that size. To extend range, they will have to make van smaller and lighter, or more likely add battery capacity.

If they upgraded to 200 kWh battery capacity, that would extend range to just under 300 miles, but would add a lot of weight, and I doubt the chassis can handle it while providing adequate Occupant and Cargo Carrying Capacity.

Additionally, the Ford OEM E-Transit has lower GVWR than the Winnebago prototype, which would make battery weight versus OCCC choices even tougher.

I’m assuming best-case which is that the 125-mile range is highway, which isn’t a certainty. If Winnebago tested using EPA City cycle which favors city range, the actual highway range at 70 MPH could easily be below 100 miles.

Yeah, we have a long ways to go before full electric motorhomes are commercially viable. In mean time, Ford should drop a hybrid powertrain in Transit with enough battery capacity to power RV House for at least 12 hours straight using Pro Power Onboard technology. All the pieces are there already, there just isn’t enough demand yet because RV business isn’t that large compared to auto industry.

[JamieGeek]

Originally Posted by Chance

Yeah, we have a long ways to go before full electric motorhomes are commercially viable. In mean time, Ford should drop a hybrid powertrain in Transit with enough battery capacity to power RV House for at least 12 hours straight using Pro Power Onboard technology. All the pieces are there already, there just isn’t enough demand yet because RV business isn’t that large compared to auto industry.

Yes been saying for a while now a hybrid powertrain would be perfect.

Note that the "Max Pack" option for the Rivian R1T is approximately 200kWh (at least news sites estimate it to be around 200kWh since they haven't published the size yet).

There is also speculation that the 400 mile version of the recently announced Chevy Silverado will have around a 200 kWh battery pack.

Given that 200 kWh packs should be small enough for pickups I'd expect a motorhome to be able to haul that around (perhaps an even larger one).

Of course the 99kWh pack in my car pushes its total weight up to 4500lbs or so...

[ducksface]

I think there a few big rv things:
They dont want to.
The slightest hill kills.
Specific large charging stations occupied by some of the worst whiners in the world.
Subsidy/investigation money is much easier to aquire than profit.
They make so much on this investigation money.
Why get on with real life when student grants are available?
They're loving the hero status the kool-aid colored hair group gives them.
Every announcement like this one in the op gets nose-ring guy(insert any natural-born-follower here) to buy a gas/electric car of the same make as 'support of greeness'.
News releases are free advertising.
Due to lack of common knowledge they can say anything and get the free adv.
'urine based battery is a break through'. This hits msnbc as an every hour splash.


They're milking it.

[JamieGeek]

Originally Posted by ducksface

I think there a few big rv things:
They dont want to.
The slightest hill kills.
Specific large charging stations occupied by some of the worst whiners in the world.
Subsidy/investigation money is much easier to aquire than profit.
They make so much on this investigation money.
Why get on with real life when student grants are available?
They're loving the hero status the kool-aid colored hair group gives them.
Every announcement like this one in the op gets nose-ring guy(insert any natural-born-follower here) to buy a gas/electric car of the same make as 'support of greeness'.
News releases are free advertising.
Due to lack of common knowledge they can say anything and get the free adv.
'urine based battery is a break through'. This hits msnbc as an every hour splash.


They're milking it.

Only at the Tesla Superchargers which an EV RV won't be using... LOL

Please don't conflate "Tesla Drivers" with "EV drivers"...they are very different LOL.

[taylorbob1]

I’ve owned two Prius
Toyota’s (and others) gas/electric hybrid technology is (IMHO) the best way to go for long range, fuel efficient driving.
Hoping to see that on an RV as gas prices creep towards $6/gal (in CA).

[ducksface]

I meant rv drivers.
How many times do you think you have to multiply tesla owners to equal rv owner whining?

I'll guess 5.
An rv owner will whine about charging station availability 5 times as much as a tesla owner..

And
Think of the size of an rv charging station as a cost per month per square foot .
Then the logistical accommodation of a large pull through. We're at 1,000s of sqft to accomdate maybe two rv's.
RV Electric price would need to average maybe $10,000 maybe $100,000 per month more due to sqft costs than a car station..and that'll chap some asses.


The integral dump station and cost(lest they whine more)
The prefiltered ro water fill up(because they deserve no less)

You're at many multiples of car station costs with a much much bigger infrastructure and an unprofitable return time even if you the electric for an rv cost was double that for a car.
Or
Car charging stations pay more so they can subsidize rv charging stations, making gas look better.

It is NEVER going to be practical and fair.

[JamieGeek]

Originally Posted by ducksface

I meant rv drivers.
How many times do you think you have to multiply tesla owners to equal rv owner whining?

I'll guess 5.
An rv owner will whine about charging station availability 5 times as much as a tesla owner..

And
Think of the size of an rv charging station as a cost per month per square foot .
Then the logistical accommodation of a large pull through. We're at 1,000s of sqft to accomdate maybe two rv's.
RV Electric price would need to average maybe $10,000 maybe $100,000 per month more due to sqft costs than a car station..and that'll chap some asses.


The integral dump station and cost(lest they whine more)
The prefiltered ro water fill up(because they deserve no less)

You're at many multiples of car station costs with a much much bigger infrastructure and an unprofitable return time even if you the electric for an rv cost was double that for a car.
Or
Car charging stations pay more so they can subsidize rv charging stations, making gas look better.

It is NEVER going to be practical and fair.

LOL! Of course.

[JamieGeek]

But wait, there is more...

Now Thor is joining the "electric RV concept" fray:

https://www.thorindustries.com/innovation

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSzwMGXKthQ

Electric assist trailer!?

300 miles using fuel cells ... hmmm.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWDImj5YJJo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-jExmPklKs

In this instance I think Thor blew away Winnebago ! LOL

The inside of the motorhome looks like the Enterprise from Star Trek The Next Generation LOL.

[Chance]

Originally Posted by JamieGeek

Yes been saying for a while now a hybrid powertrain would be perfect.

Note that the "Max Pack" option for the Rivian R1T is approximately 200kWh (at least news sites estimate it to be around 200kWh since they haven't published the size yet).

There is also speculation that the 400 mile version of the recently announced Chevy Silverado will have around a 200 kWh battery pack.

Given that 200 kWh packs should be small enough for pickups I'd expect a motorhome to be able to haul that around (perhaps an even larger one).

Of course the 99kWh pack in my car pushes its total weight up to 4500lbs or so...

Agree it can be done, but at high cost and weight many in society just won’t be able to touch. And if (when) that happens, it will create issues well beyond technical.

If 100% electrification was applied to larger Class A or C that typically get +/- 8 MPG highway, it will push consumption to about 1,200 Wh per mile, or 1.2 kWh/mile. Therefore a 200 kWh battery would give larger present-day Class A and C motorhomes a range of ~ 165 miles (more or less). Add two battery modules for a total of 400 kWh and range of about 330 miles would be possible. I could see that working regarding range, but 400 kWh battery would weigh as much as 6,000 pounds. That pretty much precludes normal Class C chassis due to weight, leaving possibility of shorter F-53 Class A on 26,000-pound in lieu of 20,000-pound chassis. Technically possible for sure to add 400 kWh (+/- 6,000-pound) battery to a truck chassis like the Ford F-53, but who could afford it, and how long would it take to charge? At that size I just don’t see much demand.

E-Transit should be a good starting point for some DIY types as soon as Ford offers a longer range battery size, although it will require very light coach design and fabrication. The E-Transit’s GVWR isn’t that high either. Just shows that even if cost wasn’t an issue, weight is.

[JamieGeek]

Originally Posted by Chance

Agree it can be done, but at high cost and weight many in society just won’t be able to touch. And if (when) that happens, it will create issues well beyond technical.

If 100% electrification was applied to larger Class A or C that typically get +/- 8 MPG highway, it will push consumption to about 1,200 Wh per mile, or 1.2 kWh/mile. Therefore a 200 kWh battery would give larger present-day Class A and C motorhomes a range of ~ 165 miles (more or less). Add two battery modules for a total of 400 kWh and range of about 330 miles would be possible. I could see that working regarding range, but 400 kWh battery would weigh as much as 6,000 pounds. That pretty much precludes normal Class C chassis due to weight, leaving possibility of shorter F-53 Class A on 26,000-pound in lieu of 20,000-pound chassis. Technically possible for sure to add 400 kWh (+/- 6,000-pound) battery to a truck chassis like the Ford F-53, but who could afford it, and how long would it take to charge? At that size I just don’t see much demand.

E-Transit should be a good starting point for some DIY types as soon as Ford offers a longer range battery size, although it will require very light coach design and fabrication. The E-Transit’s GVWR isn’t that high either. Just shows that even if cost wasn’t an issue, weight is.

Charging times don't increase linearly with battery size. A larger battery is more cells which means you can have more power going in (which gets divided up between the cells).

My Mach-E has 376 cells (99kWh) and can charge at 150kW (briefly LOL). The current gets divided up into the cells.

The new F-150 Lightning has a 131kWh battery (can't find the # of cells but its more, obviously, so assuming 30% more cells) and can also charge at 150kW.

The thing is that it doesn't take 30% longer to charge the Lightning than it does the Mach-E using fast charging (DCFC).

F-150 Lightning DCFC from 15%-80% 41 minutes (big battery)
Mach-E DCFC from 15%-80% 45 minutes (big battery)

Even though both can charge at 150kW max, on the Mach-E the charge curve brings that down sooner. On the lightning its a bit flatter of a curve.

On top of all that both Fords use a 400V architecture. Vehicles like the Porsche and the Kia EV5/6 use an 800V architecture which can charge even faster.

[Chance]

Originally Posted by JamieGeek

Charging times don't increase linearly with battery size. A larger battery is more cells which means you can have more power going in (which gets divided up between the cells).

....cut....

Of course — I was thinking more about limits due to campground or home electrical. I’m also aware some campgrounds are actually adding EV charging, but if limited to 50 Amp service, a small van could charge overnight, while a larger 400 kWh Class A not so fast.

[JamieGeek]

Originally Posted by Chance

Of course — I was thinking more about limits due to campground or home electrical. I’m also aware some campgrounds are actually adding EV charging, but if limited to 50 Amp service, a small van could charge overnight, while a larger 400 kWh Class A not so fast.

That is true, I was just talking about on the road charging.

Yeah standard Level-2 charging is pretty maxed out at 100kWh or so for overnight (which is why Ford is selling a really fast Level-2 for the Lightning with the big battery so you can have it full by morning).

Thus if someone would be expecting to overnight at a 50a site and be able to leave at 100% in the morning with a 200kWh+ battery they wouldn't be able to (of course they could get two 50amp sites next to each other--provided their coach has 2 plugs LOL).

[atreis]

Originally Posted by JamieGeek

In this instance I think Thor blew away Winnebago !

Totally agree. 300 miles is a lot more reasonable range - actually usable for some people. (Real world is probably closer to 200, with AC use.) Not quite enough for me, but getting close. I'd have preferred 400-450, which would come in at about 300 real world. That would allow for a single charging during a day's travel, over lunch.

[Bill Johnson]

Originally Posted by Chance

Yeah, the article I read a few days ago suggest it’s an EV.


For what it’s worth, some EV prototypes in Europe have Propane for heat and hot water. Kind of odd combination versus going 100% electric, but it’s done to extend range (particularly on way back after being out for days in cold weather).

They say 125 miles so about 100 miles. 89 kw battery and everything can run off the batteries so boondock and a dead battery in the morning. How would you charge the battery after boondocking,

[ducksface]

Originally Posted by Bill Johnson

They say 125 miles so about 100 miles. 89 kw battery and everything can run off the batteries so boondock and a dead battery in the morning. How would you charge the battery after boondocking,

It's 100 miles if Modesto to Goshen on the 99 at 2am(it's flatter than Kansas.)
I bet it's 30 miles or less up ElCajon with the ac on.

[Bill Johnson]

Originally Posted by ducksface

It's 100 miles if Modesto to Goshen on the 99 at 2am(it's flatter than Kansas.)
I bet it's 30 miles or less up ElCajon with the ac on.

Can you imagine if it's cold outside, I think they said 45 minutes on a fast charger, no telling how long at a campground. I think it said 350 volt ac roof unit. That should end up killing a few campers thinking it's 120 volt

[ducksface]

Originally Posted by Bill Johnson

Can you imagine if it's cold outside, I think they said 45 minutes on a fast charger, no telling how long at a campground. I think it said 350 volt ac roof unit. That should end up killing a few campers thinking it's 120 volt

They'd be just a soft person shaped indent in the asphalt.
Like the cat on Christmas vacation.

[Chance]

Rivian states that towing can reduce range by about 50% for their new electric pickup, but they also admit much has to do with aerodynamic drag, which we know is greatly affected by trailer size and shape, and also towing speed. Weight alone can be very deceiving.

So far there have been some “real-world” feedback of the pickup towing cars or mid-size vans on trailers, and as I would expect, range reduction is significant — pretty much like what Tesla SUVs have experienced when towing.

If towing a box-shaped large cargo or camping trailer, regardless of weight for the most part, at normal highway speeds, range should drop to unacceptable level. While towing a Mustang on trailer cross country, charging was planned every 100 miles. A boxy cargo or camping trailer will be far worse even if not as heavy. A motorhome should perform similarly. In my opinion if motorhome aerodynamic drag isn’t reduced significantly, range won’t be sufficient for most buyers. Unless they add +/- 500 kWh of battery.


Rivian pickup towing van on trailer. Math is hard for me to follow because towing range seems much worse than they report for the “Easing In” uphill segment. If they went through 45% of battery in 39 miles, what range are they reporting? What’s left in battery without trailer?

https://www.motortrend.com/features/...c-truck-range/


Rivian pickup towing Mustang on trailer at higher speeds. Charging every 100 miles or so.

https://driveteslacanada.ca/news/fir...ge-range-loss/


Rivian pickup towing 11,000-pound 30-foot cargo trailer. Plenty of power but no mention of range during early testing. If not for limited range, it makes a great tow vehicle with incredible power, acceleration while towing, and unaffected by high elevations.

https://www.motorauthority.com/news/...-in-the-desert