What is next for Axis/Vegas? Floorplan discontinued.

[Scubawise]

Oh well ..we need a 2023 25.6

[Chance]

Dave may be correct about low dealer interest and or orders, although it may be no fault of the 24.4 floor plan itself.

SSI reported August registrations down 25% versus 2020; from roughly 60,000 to 45,000.

Worse, Class A are down 39% versus last August.


https://rvbusiness.com/ssi-august-20...-33-from-2020/



P.S. — I noticed for first time Thor describing Axis and Vegas as “small” and “short” Class As. It may have been there for a while and I didn’t notice.

With all the interests in Bs, they should test just how small and short buyers will consider a Class A.
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[Scubawise]

Some Class B folks, like some our friends realize the small Class A has more comforts. It will change. Also Class B folks having kids or grandkids will upgrade. While traveling to over 20 campsites this summer many Class B owners asked us about our Class A.


Year-to-date remains ahead of 2020, with 434,668 retail registrations recorded through August of 2021, good enough for a 17.7% increase over the 369,195 units posted over the same period a year ago.

[JamieGeek]

Bummer drag: The 24.4 floorplan was the most compelling one to us next to our 24.1!

Got this from Thor this morning on a Facebook chat:



Its official: The 24.4 is DOA.

[atreis]

That's a real shame... I also noticed they've dropped quite a few floorplans for the Four Winds/Chateau Class C brands too (including mine). There's a lot less choice than last year, although they did add one (25V) just like the Axis 24.1.

[Chance]

Since 24.4 floor plan was very similar to that used in other models, I would have to guess they ran into technical issues, or else price was just too high.

Would still like to see Thor introduce a smaller and simpler (stripped down) version of Axis/Vegas similar to what they did with various Class B models. By going lower-cost, Thor were able to increase their market share in Class Bs; now second only to Winnebago and closing fast.

A narrower Axis prototype without the unique body taper might be interesting, and could reduce costs somewhat.

[DavidEM]

I think that the body taper is one of the real plus features of the Axis. You don't need an 8' wide place to sit up front and it also improves the coach's aerodynamics.

David

[Scubawise]

Originally Posted by DavidEM

I think that the body taper is one of the real plus features of the Axis. You don't need an 8' wide place to sit up front and it also improves the coach's aerodynamics.

David

Hey we love the space up front
Stopping to eat is wonderful

[Chance]

Originally Posted by DavidEM

I think that the body taper is one of the real plus features of the Axis. You don't need an 8' wide place to sit up front and it also improves the coach's aerodynamics.

David

David, I was thinking of the opposite — sorry I wasn’t clear.

Instead of making front wider, I was thinking of making rear narrower to match the front. I agree front is plenty wide already.

In other words, keep front end at 87 inches to minimize changing much like windshield, dash, front fascia, overhead bed, etc. Instead of making rear wider at 94 inches, just make it all 87 inches wide. Other than needing rear wheel well flairs, it could look better. Many Hymer Class A are that narrow, and the Winnebago Via/Reyo was only 90 inches wide.

Aerodynamic drag would likely improve (become lower overall).

[DavidEM]

The Via/Rey was just 90" wide? I looked hard at buying a newer Via/Rey before I settled on a new Axis and am surprised it is narrower. I think that the current proportions of the Axis/Vegas are just right at 87" in the front and 94" aft of the driver.

For the past two camping trips it has only been me since my wife didn't want to go, so I didn't bother with the couch slide out once I got set up. For one person it worked fine and didn't seem crowded given that it is 94" wide. But with two people and our dog you need the slide out to make it roomy enough.

Oh and the bath area will be really tight with only 87" of width. Not sure how the Via/Reyo did it with 90".

David

[JamieGeek]

Originally Posted by Chance

David, I was thinking of the opposite — sorry I wasn’t clear.

Instead of making front wider, I was thinking of making rear narrower to match the front. I agree front is plenty wide already.

In other words, keep front end at 87 inches to minimize changing much like windshield, dash, front fascia, overhead bed, etc. Instead of making rear wider at 94 inches, just make it all 87 inches wide. Other than needing rear wheel well flairs, it could look better. Many Hymer Class A are that narrow, and the Winnebago Via/Reyo was only 90 inches wide.

Aerodynamic drag would likely improve (become lower overall).

I bet it wouldn't be that much better with no taper. I'm sure the biggest thing is just pushing that front (essentially a flat brick) through the air. On top of that add all the protrusions (mirrors, awning, A/C, etc.) causing turbulence. I bet eliminating the taper would save 1% or less.

[Chance]

Originally Posted by DavidEM

.....cut....

Oh and the bath area will be really tight with only 87" of width. Not sure how the Via/Reyo did it with 90".

David

Like this. Does not look any worse, maybe better.

Everything is scaled down though, from beds to cabinets.
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[Chance]

Originally Posted by JamieGeek

I bet it wouldn't be that much better with no taper. I'm sure the biggest thing is just pushing that front (essentially a flat brick) through the air. On top of that add all the protrusions (mirrors, awning, A/C, etc.) causing turbulence. I bet eliminating the taper would save 1% or less.

I will take that bet in a heartbeat.


For what it’s worth, I was replying to David’s concern over aerodynamics, not that I think it would be important to lower it.

The main reason I would want to see a picture (even if computer generated) is because I think the Axis may look much better if built with traditional straight walls and proportions.

I also think shedding weight and manufacturing costs would help (versus going larger and more expensive which apparently hasn’t work that well). What could it hurt to build a smaller Axis designed much like a huge “B”? Cost could be lower than many Class B while providing much more room. Just a thought from the bigger is not always better crowd.

[JamieGeek]

Originally Posted by Chance

I will take that bet in a heartbeat.


For what it’s worth, I was replying to David’s concern over aerodynamics, not that I think it would be important to lower it.

The main reason I would want to see a picture (even if computer generated) is because I think the Axis may look much better if built with traditional straight walls and proportions.

I also think shedding weight and manufacturing costs would help (versus going larger and more expensive which apparently hasn’t work that well). What could it hurt to build a smaller Axis designed much like a huge “B”? Cost could be lower than many Class B while providing much more room. Just a thought from the bigger is not always better crowd.

Well I'm not in the bigger is better crowd. I liked the 24.4 because it packed more in the same space as the 24.1--just a longer slide. You gain a dinette will still retaining the couch and a bed (yes its a Murphy bed that has to be put away but they aren't that difficult to put away). To us the floorplan resembled the Terry 26H travel trailer we had about 15 years ago--it was our favorite floorplan then.

I don't think Thor would go through the effort of making an Axis/Vegas without the taper is that the whole front piece is made out of fiberglass in a mold. They would have to re-make the mold (something they haven't done since 2014).

Now making a simpler, cheaper one (e.g. one without slides) would be a very easy thing to do comparitively so. Kind of puzzled why they haven't--I guess they think one sans a slide wouldn't sell that well?

As pointed out somewhere else on the forums here, however: Thor is currently working through its backlog. I'm guessing that is the reasoning here: Why do we need another floorplan? We're still trying to catch up with all the orders we already have.

[Chance]

Originally Posted by JamieGeek

.....cut.....

I don't think Thor would go through the effort of making an Axis/Vegas without the taper is that the whole front piece is made out of fiberglass in a mold. They would have to re-make the mold (something they haven't done since 2014).

Now making a simpler, cheaper one (e.g. one without slides) would be a very easy thing to do comparitively so. Kind of puzzled why they haven't--I guess they think one sans a slide wouldn't sell that well?

....cut.....

Jamie, my mistake then. I thought the molded front cap appeared straight, then transitions to taper with composite wall sections, then back to straight walls again.

As I’ve proposed before, at a minimum offer a non-slide floor plan. And also going to shorter floor plan around 23-feet would allow building on standard 158-inch wheelbase which saves even more, while still maintains a sporty short rear overhang. Obviously a rear bike/gear garage would appeal to younger buyers also (or young at heart).

[JamieGeek]

Originally Posted by Chance

Jamie, my mistake then. I thought the molded front cap appeared straight, then transitions to taper with composite wall sections, then back to straight walls again.

As I’ve proposed before, at a minimum offer a non-slide floor plan. And also going to shorter floor plan around 23-feet would allow building on standard 158-inch wheelbase which saves even more, while still maintains a sporty short rear overhang. Obviously a rear bike/gear garage would appeal to younger buyers also (or young at heart).

The taper starts right at the front. Pretty much the whole side is tapered.

The front is in two molded pieces: A top/front piece and then the rest. You can see the seam in the (blurry) pic below:

Start at the top left where the awning is. You can see the seam run from there to the window. Then it continues at the bottom right of the window straight down to the wheel well. So there are two (maybe three? The piece(s) behind that seam could just be a left half and a right half) pieces to the front. Thinking about it from what it looks like on the inside: I bet the only fiberglass piece is the front/top. The two sides are likely standard RV wall (wood sandwich with styrofoam in between and the gelcoat on the outside). To adjust the taper, however, they would still have to change the top mold for the fiberglass piece.

Oh and I was incorrect: The have changed the mold since 2014--they had to adjust it for the shorter front window that eliminated the cracking.

You can really see the taper in the roof:

(That is a rather oblique angle since I was standing behind the A/C when I took the picture.)

[Chance]

You’re probably correct; it is just that when I look at an Axis from the front, the “A” pillars seem to be parallel, otherwise the windshield would need to be wider at top than bottom, and that would look really odd.

I agree there is a lot going on with taper, which is more the reason that straight walls should save costs in both materials and labor.
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[Chance]

Originally Posted by JamieGeek

Bummer drag: The 24.4 floorplan was the most compelling one to us next to our 24.1!

Got this from Thor this morning on a Facebook chat:

Attachment 34284

Its official: The 24.4 is DOA.

MHSRV is showing one 24.4 again under new Axis. Says coming soon.

https://mhsrv.com/thor-motor-coach/thor-axis-rv


If truly DOA, this may be one of the prototypes, and a rare/unique motorhome.
.

[JamieGeek]

Originally Posted by Chance

MHSRV is showing one 24.4 again under new Axis. Says coming soon.

https://mhsrv.com/thor-motor-coach/thor-axis-rv


If truly DOA, this may be one of the prototypes, and a rare/unique motorhome.
.

If I google it I find 3 dealers showing one coming in....Some have the floorplan but none have photos. I'm guessing they just haven't updated yet.

[Chance]

Originally Posted by JamieGeek

If I google it I find 3 dealers showing one coming in....Some have the floorplan but none have photos. I'm guessing they just haven't updated yet.

The unit from MHSRV I posted about a while back I first saw on September 15, and it was a Vegas. Price was around $148k.

The unit I noticed yesterday on their WEB site is an Axis (not Vegas) with an MSRP of ~ $150k. Stock numbers are also different.

Maybe it’s not as dead as you were told.
.